concealed vs. secret doors and detect secret doors spell

[billd91]

Yet i recall at least a few folks claiming using the search skill being a purely visual endeavor and that seaching shouldn't trigger touch sensitive traps.

That depends on where you're searching and what you're searching for. If you're searching for traps, you can expect a certain kind of caution with how things are manipulated.

But I wouldn't really ever assume that searching was purely a visual endeavor. A touch might notice the unusual tension on a door. A bit of poison on a spring-loaded blade might have a slight odor. The specifics of how the search check turned up the trap is something to be narrated by the DM and need not be planned in advance by the player, though a shrewd player coming up with a good search methodology for particular kinds of traps may get the oft-mentioned +2 circumstance bonus from time to time.

 

[irdeggman]

It has been professionally updated, but not by WotC.



There are actually several references to concealed things, including pits and doors, in the SRD. E.g.: "Crafty builders take advantage of tapestries to place alcoves, concealed doors, or secret switches behind them." It could be read that "secret" and "concealed" are used interchangeably, or it could be read that they're separate things. Either way, the wording wasn't updated when the adventure was, unfortunately.

I'm almost certainly going to go with letting them find the door with a spell, but I wanted to hear how more experienced GMs would make the call.

Did the adventure include the DC for the door?

There is always a Search DC (or a trap DC for finding/disabling a trap) - if not then it is a DC 20 check for a simple secret door. Again circumstance modifiers may apply.

Note that you can aid another on a Search check for something like this too. It won't work on DC 20+ secret doors since that requires a spell or trap sense special ability.

 

[frankthedm]

Would you treat it any differently if it was covered by wallpaper? So, they'd have to actually think to remove the wallpaper in order to find the door?

Your characters would leave wallpaper on the wall? That said, I think it would be quite reasonable to rule the act of adhering the material over the aperture makes it "specifically constructed to escape detection" .Specifically the wallpaper over the aperture is what i think would 'ding' to the detect secret doors spell.

 

[architectofsleep]

Did the adventure include the DC for the door?

Frustratingly, no.

What I think I'm going to go with is a Search DC 30, but Detect Secret Doors will find it.

Thanks everyone for your input!

 

[irdeggman]

Frustratingly, no.

What I think I'm going to go with is a Search DC 30, but Detect Secret Doors will find it.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Based on your description of it being merely covered then IMO you picked the wrong DC.

DC 20 is for "typical secret doors".

DC 30 is for "well hidden" ones.

 

[architectofsleep]

Based on your description of it being merely covered then IMO you picked the wrong DC.

DC 20 is for "typical secret doors".

DC 30 is for "well hidden" ones.

Oh, it's well-hidden. I can't give away how exactly since I don't know if my players read this, but think in terms of wallpaper.

 

[irdeggman]

Oh, it's well-hidden. I can't give away how exactly since I don't know if my players read this, but think in terms of wallpaper.

No problem I was merely going by this from your first post

Anyway, let's say the adventure calls for a concealed door. The door isn't magically hidden or built into the walls or anything. It's merely covered by something. Say, a bookcase or a large piece of furniture or a tapestry.

A bookcase, large piece of furniture or tapestry is IMO "typical", while built into the walls and the like is "well hidden". If it is not covered with anything at all then it is not hidden and hence not a "secret" door and requires no check to find.