D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Character Development help: Cleric turned Lyken

[Zemarah]

Okay...So I think I pissed off my DM a little and I'm looking to make up for it. He passed me a note and I skimmed it. There was so much stuff on the note that I guess I missed the most important part.

Here's my characters background:

All the characters in the campaign hate her. She started out a 7th level lawful good cleric. Her self-righteous need to do good caused her to break the law of a town and turned her chaotic good-losing her spell casting for a while because Heironeous was annoyed. She decided to start praying to Corellon instead. She likes to think that Heironeous has lost his sense of what's right. At that point she gained a level as a Rogue to encourage her Robin Hood wannabe traits.

THEN she ended up getting bit and turned Lykenthrope by her SELFISH companion as a part of some vile scheme of the NPC villain. I failed the Fort check and thus have become Chaotic Evil. Didn't realize that during the entire game last week and was confused when I was shot down for pointing out how evil my neutral good companion (another lykenthrope) was seeming to act. Feel a little silly now as I brought it up at least three times.

SO, now I'm not sure how my character would behave. She has a very strong self-righteous 'right is right' kind of personality and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do selfish evil things blantantly or whether I can do selfish evil things to make myself seem good. I actually have to miss the next game which makes me feel even more like a jerk when I just want to make up for not roleplaying right all last game.

Please help me figure out the best way to help my character in her transition from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Evil. And how the hell to get cured so I can get back to pissing off my compadres. More fun than you can imagine.

So, any opinions on inner transforming or definately any roleplaying tips for the transition would be super sweet.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Okay...So I think I pissed off my DM a little and I'm looking to make up for it. He passed me a note and I skimmed it. There was so much stuff on the note that I guess I missed the most important part.

Here's my characters background:

All the characters in the campaign hate her. She started out a 7th level lawful good cleric. Her self-righteous need to do good caused her to break the law of a town and turned her chaotic good-losing her spell casting for a while because Heironeous was annoyed. She decided to start praying to Corellon instead. She likes to think that Heironeous has lost his sense of what's right. At that point she gained a level as a Rogue to encourage her Robin Hood wannabe traits.

THEN she ended up getting bit and turned Lykenthrope by her SELFISH companion as a part of some vile scheme of the NPC villain. I failed the Fort check and thus have become Chaotic Evil. Didn't realize that during the entire game last week and was confused when I was shot down for pointing out how evil my neutral good companion (another lykenthrope) was seeming to act. Feel a little silly now as I brought it up at least three times.

SO, now I'm not sure how my character would behave. She has a very strong self-righteous 'right is right' kind of personality and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do selfish evil things blantantly or whether I can do selfish evil things to make myself seem good. I actually have to miss the next game which makes me feel even more like a jerk when I just want to make up for not roleplaying right all last game.

Please help me figure out the best way to help my character in her transition from Chaotic Good to Chaotic Evil. And how the hell to get cured so I can get back to pissing off my compadres. More fun than you can imagine.

So, any opinions on inner transforming or definately any roleplaying tips for the transition would be super sweet.

Um, turning into a Lycanthrope doesn't make you permanently evil.

Only while in Hybrd/wolf (assuming werewolf) form unknowly makes you evil until daybreak/when change back (alignment shifts back to original alignment at that time).
Also if you ever change on purpose then you are change evil (change evil alignment until do good to make self not evil).


Getting cured if you wait too long is hard. How long did you wait after being infected?

 

[Zemarah]

That's what I thought, that was why the note confused me. However, from what my DM said - if you fail a fort check then you assume the alignment of the wolf even when you're in your regular form.


I'm not sure where he found that rule, and my only experience with werewolves was in a werewolf campaign four years ago. I do know we're working out of 3.5 and I wouldn't be suprised if he dipped into 2.0 since sometimes he bends certain rules in favor of the older ones.


PS I was just infected, it's been about a month since the change. However this whole campaign has been in a world against Lyken so I can't imagine it's going to be easy to find any solution...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

All the characters in the campaign hate her. She started out a 7th level lawful good cleric. Her self-righteous need to do good caused her to break the law of a town and turned her chaotic good-losing her spell casting for a while because Heironeous was annoyed. She decided to start praying to Corellon instead. She likes to think that Heironeous has lost his sense of what's right. At that point she gained a level as a Rogue to encourage her Robin Hood wannabe traits.

I feel the need to point out: you do NOT change alignment from a single action, unless it is very MAJOR. Furthermore, "Lawful" alignment does not mean you need to follow the laws of every location you are in, or any, for that matter. It is more about a personal code. And as a cleric especially, if your deity's will or sense of lawfulness is different from some town's...screw that town! Heironeous's word is the final law you obey. Your description gives me a very negative view of your DM as someone who is way too harsh on alignment.


As far as your transition, do you WANT to be CE? Others already said turning involuntarily won't cause it, but do you want to do that? Or is it being forced on you? If it's being forced on you, you should speak up about not liking it and possibly leave the game. Barring that, a helm of opposite alignment (or possibly an atonement spell) should "do the trick," mechanically. If you actually like the idea of turning CE, think of your character's motivations and ideals. List them if you can. Then try and think how they could warp her towards the "dark side."

 

[Zemarah]

No, I really don't want to be CE. I already am in another campaign with this group where I'm a CN/CE monk/rogue. I like playing various alignments of rogues. So I feel like I'm going to end up with a similar character now.

And since I've always been kind of lazy about learning the rules, I have a hard time challenging the DM who has every D&D book ever written sitting in crates next to him as he runs the game.

When I was suprised at the alignment change, another player who also has been playing for years backed up the DM and was like "Yeah, if you fail that check your alignment changes even when you're not a werewolf."

I also feel like this is the DM's world, so even if I don't like it and want my character back asap...I feel like I would be challenging GOD to question it.

It took me a couple years to find a game I was comfortable in, so I don't think I'll be leaving soon! My usual friends don't play D&D and as I'm a chick I never was comfortable with the idea of showing up at a strangers house with a group of guys I don't know. So I really want to play nice...

 

[Starbuck_II]

No, I really don't want to be CE. I already am in another campaign with this group where I'm a CN/CE monk/rogue. I like playing various alignments of rogues. So I feel like I'm going to end up with a similar character now.

And since I've always been kind of lazy about learning the rules, I have a hard time challenging the DM who has every D&D book ever written sitting in crates next to him as he runs the game.

When I was suprised at the alignment change, another player who also has been playing for years backed up the DM and was like "Yeah, if you fail that check your alignment changes even when you're not a werewolf."

I also feel like this is the DM's world, so even if I don't like it and want my character back asap...I feel like I would be challenging GOD to question it.

It took me a couple years to find a game I was comfortable in, so I don't think I'll be leaving soon! My usual friends don't play D&D and as I'm a chick I never was comfortable with the idea of showing up at a strangers house with a group of guys I don't know. So I really want to play nice...

There are a couple of possibilities:
1) Houserule

2) The friend has had that rule houseruled in the past that they have internalize the houserule as the official rule (happens alot)

3) Both are completely mistaken, but assume that is the rule.

Options:
If #1 you can argue that he should mention that it is a houserule (some people forget that they aren't following official rules and houserule by mistake)

If #2 Show that friend that that isn't an actual rule (monster manual is the official manual for Lycan changes)
Ask, " I think maybeyou were mistaken because the book doesn't say that. Are you sure that is a rule?".
You never want to just say you because people can get defensive (so best to make it "I" first).
Best to have the friend on your side when asking DM if this was a rule.

If #3, same as 2 but ask DM since they are only assuming.

No need to leave the game. But always ask if they are sure because my books don't say that.

Heck the SRD doesn't say that: and as they are owned by Wizards of the Coast that makes them official-like.

It is more than likely possibility #3.

 

[Shin Okada]

Actually, your alignment may change because of a failed will save.

From SRD,

LYCANTHROPY AS AN AFFLICTION
....
A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15 + number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes.

But it takes much time and many stages for this to happen.

* You must be injured by a natural (not afflicted) lycanthrope.
* Then you must fail in DC 15 fort save to be afflicted by lycanthropy.
* By this stage, you usually notice that you are injured by a lycanthrope, so, you usually take appropriate countermeasure.
* If you are still afflicted by lycanthropy by the night of next full-moon, you assume the animal form for the first time. This is when you are forced to roll the first will save for alignment change.

It will take a lot of time and failed skill checks and saves to make this happen on a 7th-level cleric.

 

[javcs]

...
I think either the DM's fudging the rolls, or you had a ridiculously bad string of them.

A 7th level Cleric's base save for both Fortitude and Will, which are the only relevant ones right now, is +5.
At level 7, I would expect that the Will save would have additional modifiers on it, minimum of +4, possibly higher. The Fortitude save I would expect to have an additional modifier of at least +2, likely more.
The estimated numbers, of course, are somewhat the lowering of expectations, because, well, in most of my games, stuff is just nuts.

The DMG NPC Cleric at level 7 has a Fort save of +7 and a Will save of +8. I would expect a PC's saves to be at least a little better than the NPC's from the DMG (which, as most of us know, are generally examples in how not to guild a character) because of superior gear, and probably much better stats.

To summarize: unless your character is less optimized than a DMG NPC, your Cleric had very good odds at not being affected by the lycanthropy in the first place, and probably has better odds of holding onto her alignment for at least a while - long enough to get treatment.

 

[irdeggman]

The other possibility is that the DM is trying to run a CN/CE type of game and not one that is "Good" aligned.

If so then you need to talk to the DM about what to do. Since the alignment change was "forced" on your PC then the DM should likewise allow a way to restore your PC's abilities that were "lost" due to the alignment switch. You can no longer cast "good" spells, spontaneously cast "heal" spells or "turn undead" because of your alignment.

Alignment: A cleric’s alignment must be within one step of his deity’s (that is, it may be one step away on either the lawful–chaotic axis or the good–evil axis, but not both). A cleric may not be neutral unless his deity’s alignment is also neutral.

Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can “lose” any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with “cure” in its name).

An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), can’t convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with “inflict” in its name).

A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player’s choice). Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead (see below).

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): Any cleric, regardless of alignment, has the power to affect undead creatures by channeling the power of his faith through his holy (or unholy) symbol (see Turn or Rebuke Undead).

A good cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships a good deity) can turn or destroy undead creatures. An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric who worships an evil deity) instead rebukes or commands such creatures. A neutral cleric of a neutral deity must choose whether his turning ability functions as that of a good cleric or an evil cleric. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric can cast spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see above).

When your cleric switched deities you did switch domains correct?

Now the change in alignment to evil causes a lot more problems than going from Lawful to Chaotic. But again check the domains to make sure they still "work".

 

[Zemarah]

Okay, I'm a 7th Level Cleric/1 Level Rogue so Fort is 9 and will is 8. I rolled a 3 on the first save and a 5 on the other one, I think. I'm a notoriously bad roller. My char has transformed twice now.

I'm not allowed to cast spells except healing spells which at this point doesn't really make any sense at all. Maybe my DM felt bad because my character hasn't cast spells in a long time due to her previous alignment change and change in faith. She just got her spells back right before-like the day before-her first transformation.

From what Shin said, there is a rule that you have to be bitten by a natural lykan to have alignment change? Is that in the MM?

And Irdegg -that's the weird thing. I actually was considering bringing my character down to LE a little while ago and I was told by the other players that if I did that the DM would probably find a way to kill the character. So I have to think this must be pretty temporary. Which turned out okay because I got my evil on in that other campaign. But he's definately the kind of DM that wants us to figure stuff out on our own to get the reward, which is why I'm trying to find a way to get fixed. He's said many times that the priestesses of gloriana are not easy to find-hinting that we would need another cure.

And thanks for all your help!