Call to the Four Lands - OCC

It isn't so much the actual coming to blows with one another that was worrying me...that, for the most part, can be averted by good roleplaying. It is the fact that as a 14th level cleric, Vadric can cast Holy Word...which (per the rules) affects all netural and evil beings in a 40' radius. With mulitple neutrals now in the party, it was going to be difficult to not accidentally smite companions.
 

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OH, and I've posted in both games. I still have a few things to update on Roak (which I'll get done this weekend), but Vadric is updated.
 

It isn't so much the actual coming to blows with one another that was worrying me...that, for the most part, can be averted by good roleplaying. It is the fact that as a 14th level cleric, Vadric can cast Holy Word...which (per the rules) affects all netural and evil beings in a 40' radius. With mulitple neutrals now in the party, it was going to be difficult to not accidentally smite companions.
I wish that you had said this sooner, Rhun. The way you had it worded previously made me think that you were out to intentionally smite neutral party members. But, I hate to be a 'waffler,' and I'm not sure that I have enough time to learn a new campaign anyway, so I'd better still pass on the Great North game. ;) (it would have been good, though....)
 

I wish that you had said this sooner, Rhun. The way you had it worded previously made me think that you were out to intentionally smite neutral party members. But, I hate to be a 'waffler,' and I'm not sure that I have enough time to learn a new campaign anyway, so I'd better still pass on the Great North game. ;) (it would have been good, though....)

I actually did mention it:

Rhun said:
many of Vadric's AoE combat spells affect Neutral PCs as well as Evil PCs.

I just wasn't clear that I wasn't talking about purposely smiting neutral party members, but that the Area of Effect spells that Vadric can cast will accidentally smite neutral PCs if they stand too close in combat (you have to admit, a 40' radius for an AoE spell is pretty huge, and it would suck to not be able to cast it when we are getting attacked by 50 Order of Drakkar minions).

I think JA remedied that above, though, by saying they would smite anyone who does evil, whether they are followers of The Light or not.
 

I actually did mention it:
Yeah, I guess you did, sorta, but without more context I couldn't tell what in the world you were talking about!
I think JA remedied that above, though, by saying they would smite anyone who does evil, whether they are followers of The Light or not.
Hmmm, that would seem to imply that a Neutral ally of Vadric's who is both a follower of the Light and actively engaged in smiting the same Darkness that Vadric is smiting would NOT be affected by said spell. JA, can we get a ruling on this point?

And JA, is it even possible to be Neutral and still be a follower of the Light?
 

And JA, is it even possible to be Neutral and still be a follower of the Light?


I obviously can't speak for JA, but the biggest problem I see with neutral PCs being followers of the Light (if one's assumption is The Light is "good"), is that neutrals are not altrusitic. So if they were followers of the Light, they would be in it for their own benefit, as opposed to wanting to help people and serve the Light. But alignment is really sort of nebulous in JA's game, so I have some of the same confusion that you do. :D

Not sure if this helps at all, but I thought I would add it:

[sblock=Religion in the Four Lands]
RELIGION
Religion in the Four Lands is a topic that is not easily discussed even among polite company. Depending upon the nationality and or race involved, such discussion often leads to physical confrontation and when between nobles and nations to open war. While in the distant past their were numerous pantheons and tribal gods, over the passage of time, these have been weakened and if a god can truly die, then many have passed from existence or surrendered their powers to other entities or simple gone dormant. The following are the most commonly practiced religions of the four lands.

The Light
The most dominant religious faction of the Four Lands is that of the “Church of the Light” which has a geographic center in the “Valley of the Light”. The Light believes that all magic is divine and the practice of such should be restricted to those individuals who have taken holy orders or who have been gifted by “the light” with the ability to use magic. This belief has lead to the persecutions of all users of magic due to the simple fact, that while sorcery is considered to be granted as an inherent gift of the light, it is hard to prove that one is a sorcery instead of a high level magic user

The Light was formed in response to the Northalnd Invasions, when the Valley and most of humanity was overrun and enslaved by the Northern Hordes. As people were of the belief that their tribal gods had deserted them they began looking for hope and rescue in other directions. As a result of this movement, the already weakened diets of the various tribes and ethic groups which were of lawful or good variations surrender their divinity to a collective effort to form “The Light” in order to restore the faith of mankind as well as to combat the forces of “Darkness” plaguing mankind. The deities who were involved in this joint effort still remained but in weakened forms. They assumed the status of patron saints thru which a church member may petition “the light” for intercession in regards to a particular function or aspect. Over the years, as the influence of certain saints have waned, their has been arise in Religious Orders to take their place and function. The following are the most common Saints and Religious Orders of the “Church of the Light”

- Society for the Preservation of the Faith - The Religious Order of the Society for the Preservation of the Faith is charged with and dedicated to doctrinal and liturgical consistence and purity. The principal mission of this order is to investigate all charges of heresy and magic use within the reach of the “Church”. Given this mission, the order is often at odds with the local religious hierarchy, especially in the Borderlands, and even strains the bonds of Church/State relations in many political divisions. The society is sometimes referred to as “The Hounds of Faith”

- Society for Service to the Faithful – The Religious Order of the Society for the Service of the Faithful is one of the largest in the Church. Originally the mission of the Society was to help all members of the church regardless of their circumstances in times of trouble. Therefore the Society has a well established system of orphanages, work houses, hospitals, etc to which the faithful may turn in times of need. An unanticipated result of their mission was the development of a strong finical network for the church. As the Society’s presence is felt in almost every geographic region in which the Church is allowed, they have become in efficient “Bankers of the Light” as given their existing network of facilities and contacts, the Society has the ability to honor drafts for cash which have been issued by the Society or other ecclesiastic entities.

- Society of Truth and Justice – The Society of Truth and Justice is dedicated to the search for knowledge and to finding the root or base cause of all events and or acts. As a result of this dedication, the society also became interested in Justice, as they believed that the rule of law is the base foundation of any culture but that justice sometimes is at odds with the law and only by looking at the truth of a situation can justice be
delivered. Needles to say this position often puts the society at odds with the more law and order types within the nobility and the Church itself. The Society is commonly referred to as “the black robes” as all members of the order are required to wear black robes and wear a skull cap denoting their rank within the order and or learning. Further, given this dedication to the search for the truth and base causes, the society controls most of the institutions of higher learning within the those lands deemed to be “In the Light”

- Society for the Outreach to the Unchurched – The Society for the Outreach to the Unchurched commonly referred to as “The Missions”. The orders primary mission is to perform missionary work among the nations of the world and to energize thru positive or negative reinforcement the faith and commitment of new and existing members. By church law, no one is deemed a member of the Church until he or she has been welcomed into and accepted by a parish. This can only occur when a person has reached an age of consent which is held to be 16 years of age. Until this age, an individual is deemed to be under the protections and guidance of the church but not a member subject to ecclesiastical charges or benefits.

- Knights of the Light - The Knights of the Light are the martial order of the Church. In scope it rivals the Society for Service in the scope of its facilities. It is in fact the largest Society/Order in terms of membership. The principal mission of the Knights is to insure the safety of the Trade Roads and to form the core of any Church Army. While the Knights are large in number, they are currently stretched thin due to their basic charge of protecting the church and travelers which dictates that they must patrol the trade roads within the reach of the Light. The exception to this is the east/west trade road of the Borderlands which is guarded and patrolled by the Brotherhood. In addition to the mounted contingent used for patrol and war, the Knight of the Light also maintain garrison and support troops of it’s chapter houses which adds and additionally 10 divisions to the Orders total. These men-at arms are usually dressed in chain shirts and carry a long sword and are versed in the use of javelins.

Saint Olidammara - The patron Saint of Music and Tricks (Bards and Rogues)
Saint Pelor – The patron Saint of Healing and Strength
Saint Hestia (female) – The Patron Saint of Home and Hearth
Saint Hephaestus – Patron Saint of Smiths –
Saint Athena (female)- Patron Saint of Law and Truth
Saint Heironeous – Patron Saint of War
Saint Tyche – Patron Saint of Luck and Travelers

The Church of the Light is organized in a hierarchal basis and is headed by a Primate. Below the Primate there are the Patriarchs of the Church which form the legislative body of the Church. By tradition and Church Law there can only be 100 patriarchs of the church as this was the number of deities that sacrificed their divinity to form the light.
These Patriarchs are chosen by the primate subject to ratification by the Council of Patriarchs. On any matter regarding the changing of church doctrine or the election of the Primates a majority of ¾ +1 is required. Below the Patriarchs in prestige and power are the archbishops and bishops respectively. In fact, most patriarchs given the size of the church also hold important bishoprics. However, by church law, a simple priest and in rare instance a layman may be elevated to the status of patriarch. After the archbishops and bishops are the monsigliori who traditionally form the administrative staff of the church and below them the parish priest.

Running parrell to the actual religious hiearch is the hierarch of the various reldious orders. If it is a militan order then it is headed by a Preceptor and if it is a non-militant order it is headed by a Father-General. Below these are the Abbots, the Monks/Brothers and the Novices. According to church law the only reseved positons in the Coucil of Patriachs are for the Preceptors of the 5 great militant orders and the Father Generals of the 5 great Religious Orders.

The use of Divine Magic in the Church is actually very limited. The majority of members (80%) fall into the category of parish priest with only the remaing (20%) being true clerics. It should not be assumed that since they are not clerics, that parish priests lack influence and power. Simple stated, the power of the parish priest comes from the ritual use of magic and is done in a liturgical setting to accomplish such things a marriage, burial, healing, protection, exorcisism and the entire range of ecclestical offerings. These priests rather than drawing upon the divine might of the light, draw upon the faith of the followers of light who over a period of centuries endowed even the most humblest altar of light found in the most backwards of regions with a huge resourive of divne energy. Legend has it, that this was the price the old gods demanded, in return for their dissolutiom, that a part of their essence be avaialbe to what at that time were their follwes so that their welfare and needs mite be met and the power they scraficed not be squandered by the new preist and clerics of the Light. The Chuch of course denies and brand as heresay this legend. It is however irrefutable, that the oldest known shirens and cahtraderial of the chuch have incredaible power and that in times past, the greatest of all primates Anniston I and Porton were able to create the legendary artifacts known as the Seven maces of Light, and the Seven Shields of the Faithful by Anniston, and the Mitre of Light, the Rod of Obidenance and The Ring of Calling by Porton, utilizing several of these.
[/sblock]
 
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I obviously can't speak for JA, but the biggest problem I see with neutral PCs being followers of the Light (if one's assumption is The Light is "good"), is that neutrals are not altrusitic. So if they were followers of the Light, they would be in it for their own benefit, as opposed to wanting to help people and serve the Light. But alignment is really sort of nebulous in JA's game, so I have some of the same confusion that you do. :D

Not sure if this helps at all, but I thought I would add it:

[sblock=Religion in the Four Lands]
RELIGION
Religion in the Four Lands is a topic that is not easily discussed even among polite company. Depending upon the nationality and or race involved, such discussion often leads to physical confrontation and when between nobles and nations to open war. While in the distant past their were numerous pantheons and tribal gods, over the passage of time, these have been weakened and if a god can truly die, then many have passed from existence or surrendered their powers to other entities or simple gone dormant. The following are the most commonly practiced religions of the four lands.

The Light
The most dominant religious faction of the Four Lands is that of the “Church of the Light” which has a geographic center in the “Valley of the Light”. The Light believes that all magic is divine and the practice of such should be restricted to those individuals who have taken holy orders or who have been gifted by “the light” with the ability to use magic. This belief has lead to the persecutions of all users of magic due to the simple fact, that while sorcery is considered to be granted as an inherent gift of the light, it is hard to prove that one is a sorcery instead of a high level magic user

The Light was formed in response to the Northalnd Invasions, when the Valley and most of humanity was overrun and enslaved by the Northern Hordes. As people were of the belief that their tribal gods had deserted them they began looking for hope and rescue in other directions. As a result of this movement, the already weakened diets of the various tribes and ethic groups which were of lawful or good variations surrender their divinity to a collective effort to form “The Light” in order to restore the faith of mankind as well as to combat the forces of “Darkness” plaguing mankind. The deities who were involved in this joint effort still remained but in weakened forms. They assumed the status of patron saints thru which a church member may petition “the light” for intercession in regards to a particular function or aspect. Over the years, as the influence of certain saints have waned, their has been arise in Religious Orders to take their place and function. The following are the most common Saints and Religious Orders of the “Church of the Light”

- Society for the Preservation of the Faith - The Religious Order of the Society for the Preservation of the Faith is charged with and dedicated to doctrinal and liturgical consistence and purity. The principal mission of this order is to investigate all charges of heresy and magic use within the reach of the “Church”. Given this mission, the order is often at odds with the local religious hierarchy, especially in the Borderlands, and even strains the bonds of Church/State relations in many political divisions. The society is sometimes referred to as “The Hounds of Faith”

- Society for Service to the Faithful – The Religious Order of the Society for the Service of the Faithful is one of the largest in the Church. Originally the mission of the Society was to help all members of the church regardless of their circumstances in times of trouble. Therefore the Society has a well established system of orphanages, work houses, hospitals, etc to which the faithful may turn in times of need. An unanticipated result of their mission was the development of a strong finical network for the church. As the Society’s presence is felt in almost every geographic region in which the Church is allowed, they have become in efficient “Bankers of the Light” as given their existing network of facilities and contacts, the Society has the ability to honor drafts for cash which have been issued by the Society or other ecclesiastic entities.

- Society of Truth and Justice – The Society of Truth and Justice is dedicated to the search for knowledge and to finding the root or base cause of all events and or acts. As a result of this dedication, the society also became interested in Justice, as they believed that the rule of law is the base foundation of any culture but that justice sometimes is at odds with the law and only by looking at the truth of a situation can justice be
delivered. Needles to say this position often puts the society at odds with the more law and order types within the nobility and the Church itself. The Society is commonly referred to as “the black robes” as all members of the order are required to wear black robes and wear a skull cap denoting their rank within the order and or learning. Further, given this dedication to the search for the truth and base causes, the society controls most of the institutions of higher learning within the those lands deemed to be “In the Light”

- Society for the Outreach to the Unchurched – The Society for the Outreach to the Unchurched commonly referred to as “The Missions”. The orders primary mission is to perform missionary work among the nations of the world and to energize thru positive or negative reinforcement the faith and commitment of new and existing members. By church law, no one is deemed a member of the Church until he or she has been welcomed into and accepted by a parish. This can only occur when a person has reached an age of consent which is held to be 16 years of age. Until this age, an individual is deemed to be under the protections and guidance of the church but not a member subject to ecclesiastical charges or benefits.

- Knights of the Light - The Knights of the Light are the martial order of the Church. In scope it rivals the Society for Service in the scope of its facilities. It is in fact the largest Society/Order in terms of membership. The principal mission of the Knights is to insure the safety of the Trade Roads and to form the core of any Church Army. While the Knights are large in number, they are currently stretched thin due to their basic charge of protecting the church and travelers which dictates that they must patrol the trade roads within the reach of the Light. The exception to this is the east/west trade road of the Borderlands which is guarded and patrolled by the Brotherhood. In addition to the mounted contingent used for patrol and war, the Knight of the Light also maintain garrison and support troops of it’s chapter houses which adds and additionally 10 divisions to the Orders total. These men-at arms are usually dressed in chain shirts and carry a long sword and are versed in the use of javelins.

Saint Olidammara - The patron Saint of Music and Tricks (Bards and Rogues)
Saint Pelor – The patron Saint of Healing and Strength
Saint Hestia (female) – The Patron Saint of Home and Hearth
Saint Hephaestus – Patron Saint of Smiths –
Saint Athena (female)- Patron Saint of Law and Truth
Saint Heironeous – Patron Saint of War
Saint Tyche – Patron Saint of Luck and Travelers

The Church of the Light is organized in a hierarchal basis and is headed by a Primate. Below the Primate there are the Patriarchs of the Church which form the legislative body of the Church. By tradition and Church Law there can only be 100 patriarchs of the church as this was the number of deities that sacrificed their divinity to form the light.
These Patriarchs are chosen by the primate subject to ratification by the Council of Patriarchs. On any matter regarding the changing of church doctrine or the election of the Primates a majority of ¾ +1 is required. Below the Patriarchs in prestige and power are the archbishops and bishops respectively. In fact, most patriarchs given the size of the church also hold important bishoprics. However, by church law, a simple priest and in rare instance a layman may be elevated to the status of patriarch. After the archbishops and bishops are the monsigliori who traditionally form the administrative staff of the church and below them the parish priest.

Running parrell to the actual religious hiearch is the hierarch of the various reldious orders. If it is a militan order then it is headed by a Preceptor and if it is a non-militant order it is headed by a Father-General. Below these are the Abbots, the Monks/Brothers and the Novices. According to church law the only reseved positons in the Coucil of Patriachs are for the Preceptors of the 5 great militant orders and the Father Generals of the 5 great Religious Orders.

The use of Divine Magic in the Church is actually very limited. The majority of members (80%) fall into the category of parish priest with only the remaing (20%) being true clerics. It should not be assumed that since they are not clerics, that parish priests lack influence and power. Simple stated, the power of the parish priest comes from the ritual use of magic and is done in a liturgical setting to accomplish such things a marriage, burial, healing, protection, exorcisism and the entire range of ecclestical offerings. These priests rather than drawing upon the divine might of the light, draw upon the faith of the followers of light who over a period of centuries endowed even the most humblest altar of light found in the most backwards of regions with a huge resourive of divne energy. Legend has it, that this was the price the old gods demanded, in return for their dissolutiom, that a part of their essence be avaialbe to what at that time were their follwes so that their welfare and needs mite be met and the power they scraficed not be squandered by the new preist and clerics of the Light. The Chuch of course denies and brand as heresay this legend. It is however irrefutable, that the oldest known shirens and cahtraderial of the chuch have incredaible power and that in times past, the greatest of all primates Anniston I and Porton were able to create the legendary artifacts known as the Seven maces of Light, and the Seven Shields of the Faithful by Anniston, and the Mitre of Light, the Rod of Obidenance and The Ring of Calling by Porton, utilizing several of these.
[/sblock]
Yes, I've read a version of that document before, but it has been quite a long time ago. Hmmm, it does say that the Light was formed by deities that were GOOD and also dieties that were LAWFUL. So I could make an argument that both N-G and L-N pcs, as well as L-G, were included in the light. My argument wouldn't be worth spit if Todd JA has decreed otherwise, but, you know.....
 
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Vadric is Neutral Good himself, so I certainly hope "Lawful Good" is not the only true alignment for following The Light! :D
 

Yes it is possilbe for a neutral to be a follower of the light.....right actions get right results if that makes sense....one can weigh the pro/cons but as long as the actions are right and his heart is pure then a neurtal would be counted in the light....for example a prelate has to order the assisnation of someone..while the action is evil..if the evidence is there it is is done with a right heart for the greater good etc then it would not be seen as an evil act...

As for a ruling...hmmmm it is going to be a hybrid if that makes sense...should a declared follower of the Light who happens to have neutral tendencies be within the area of effect he would 99.9 percent not be affected.......however when dealing with the old religion (druids or members of the brotherhood) then they almost certainly will be effected.

Lawful Good, Neutral Good, Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral and a few Lawful Evil deties were among those that surrended their power to help form the light..
 

Well, shoot! All of this talk is making me want to play this game again!! I blame you, Rhun! :p If JA would be so unbelievably kind as to let me waffle yet again, ( :D ) I'd be inclined to change my cleric's alignment from L/N to L/G just so I could be a thorn in Vadric's side and a huge pain in his a**!
 

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