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things i like/dislike about PHB2 - a sort of review

evilbob

Adventurer
I did this for Dungeon Delve and I liked how it turned out, so I'm doing it again for the Players Handbook 2. This isn't meant to be a full review, but to sort of highlight things I personally liked or didn't like about the book, in order to help those who might still be on the fence about purchasing it. Clearly, your own millage may vary, but here's one viewpoint that might help you make up your mind.


Things I disliked:

4 out of 5 Races

Aasimar are dead. Now, instead of being a race that no one could spell and did occasionally get misspelled badly, they're prissy prima donnas that look exactly like Doctor Manhattan. Great.

Now, I know that movie's release was a coincidence, but seriously: they completely stole that look. Blatantly. Like, someone should call Alan Moore (does he even have a phone?). And yes, I also know that according to the development article the devs didn't intend for "Deva" to be pronounced like "diva", but if that's so shouldn't they have spelled it another way? The fact that the article tries to correct the pronunciation shows they already knew it'd be an issue: so how hilariously ironic is that? They went from one name no one could pronounce correctly to another name no one will pronounce correctly, and all just to get away from people saying "Assimar." I don't think that trade was worth it.

Additionally, they changed the stat boosts to Int and Wis (instead of Cha and Wis), so while they work great as the two divine classes specially made for those stats in the PHB2, they are not really a good race for the divine classes from the PHB1. In particular, they make horrible paladins, and they mostly make good ...wizards? That doesn't really jive well with their concept, I think.

Overall, just like half-orcs, gnomes, and shifters, they just don't have a very good "flavor" concept for the race. Their background is jumbled and confused, and you don't really get a sense of where they "fit" in the world. I mean, at least halflings have the swamps, right? All of these races suffer from what seems like a need to reinvent them just for the sake of reinventing them, except that those who did it just aren't nearly as good writers. At the end of the day we're left with just more crunchy bits that fit like puzzle pieces into other crunchy bits, so we can make characters using the new classes that aren't sucky. They may as well have called Devas "PHB2-A"; that's really the level of feeling I get from them.


Feats

Welcome to 4th edition's first universal house rule. The Expertise feats are here and they are exactly as bad as everyone thought they would be. I'll be curious to see how or if they fix this in the future*, but until then it seems like most if not all DMs will be adjusting this rule in at least some small way. And the worst part is the bad taste in the back of your mouth that this really is just a cobbled-together patch for some poor math skills a year ago. It's just so obvious - why didn't they pick another way? Yuck, yuck, yuck.

*This feat is already being changed: it "will be clarified" that it does not stack with itself, thus removing the worst abuse. The good thing is that now fewer people will have to institute this house rule. The bad thing is that they've just proved that they really did not think the feat through, meaning you might as well just house rule it anyway since you're not affecting some "master plan" for balance.

Update: Also the +2 to all defenses feat and each of the +4 (untyped) to a defense feats seem like poorly disguised math fixes as well. They're epic feats, so they certainly get a lot more slack, but they still seem almost as bad in the long run.


Strikers

There were 3 striker classes in the PHB1 and there are 3 more in the PHB2. Clearly, the devs like strikers. It's a shame, then, that the sorcerer and the barbarian are so incredibly powerful that there's really almost reason to go back to the PHB1 for a striker. Ruthless and Brutal rogues are the only striker builds from the PHB1 that can hold a candle to this new batch. The poor warlock in particular really got it hard: sorcerers have the same power source, one of the same primary stats, and they are better than warlocks in every way. They do more damage, have better defenses, are more "controllery" with more AOE spells, and they have only one primary attack stat instead of two. I honestly cannot come up with a reason that anyone should ever play a warlock ever again. In fact, I can't come up with a reason that anyone playing one now shouldn't respec to a sorcerer immediately. Rangers at least have one good reason to still exist: so you can multiclass and get Blade Cascade. But otherwise there is not much reason to mess with them, either.


Weird Race/Class Combinations

Dwarves made terrible everythings in the PHB1. Well ok, there's a case to be made for dwarves making fighters that aren't that bad (thanks to a couple required feats), but there's a long (and growing) list of races that make better ones. Well finally, dwarves have classes for which they don't suck! So long as you want to play a controller - you know, throwing magic from afar, somethings dwarves are so well-known for - then you can play a dwarf. Especially if you want to play a dwarf as a outdoors-y, nature-loving druid who gets along great with forest critters and is so incredibly iconic when you think of the fantasy genre... Oh wait, what's that? You don't feel like playing specific builds of controllers? You'd rather play a dwarf like the rough-and-tumble tough guy trope from the billion fantasy sources that already exist? You say you wish you could just use an axe? Well get your ass back to the back of the damn bus, dwarf! There's no place for you here.


It's Light

It's about 100 pages shorter than the PHB1, and it's the same price. Wow. This is really the worst factor of them all. There are lots of new options, but not really any rules. In fact, since they keep saving up all their fluff and expansive ideas for other books, all the PHB2 really contains is crunch for races, classes, and items/options that work for them. In other words: all the stuff you're going to get with the character builder once it updates. Additionally, while the PHB2 does contain plenty of support for the races and classes introduced, it feels like there are still fewer items/feats/rituals than what exists in the PHB1 for those races and classes. It's a tough call, but it seems like they want to keep holding back and not give away too much so that you'll have to buy more supplements that are already coming down the line. And that just leaves a bad taste in your mouth, too.



Things I liked:

Dragonborn now have another class that they rock OUT. Controllers finally came into their own, and while wizards are still mixed up (poor at-wills, a few awesome dailies mixed in with some truly horrible dailies), hopefully Arcane Power will bring the fix they desperately need. The classes are generally cool, and amazingly powerful. The "new" classes - avenger, invoker, shaman, and warden - all fit pretty well into the scheme of things and don't step on too many toes. It's clear that class design was something the devs really liked.

And even some of the bad things have good points: the Expertise feats at least admit that the math was wrong and give you an idea for how to fix it. I honestly can't wait to play a sorcerer and a barbarian, because they are damage gods. It just makes me feel bad for players who are currently playing strikers - they will not keep up. And while dwarf class options are still poor for their fantasy tropes, hey: at least they have options! Same thing with the book being excessively light: at least there are more things you can do, period.



So do I recommend purchasing the PHB2? No. Clearly not; there's honestly no reason to get it, so long as you purchase at least 1 month's worth of character builder. Wait a week and for $8 you can have a useful tool, a great resource, and absolutely everything included in the PHB2. Why pay more than that? Better question: why pay the same price as the PHB1 for that? If they're going to cut all the non-crunch out of a book, then I suggest just using their crunch machine to gather it up and use it. It's not really even an interesting read.

It might be worth it if you're the kind of player who doesn't like and won't use the character builder. It's also worth it if no one else in your gaming group is going to get it OR purchase the character builder, either: I mean, at the end of the day having more options is always better. But unless you fall within this very narrow range of D&D consumer, do yourself a favor and save 20 bucks (or closer to 10 if you use Amazon): get the character builder instead.


Update: After further reading in the book and discussion on this thread I want to make it clear that the PHB2 is by no means a terrible book, and it is certainly a good resource for D&D games. However, absolutely nothing has dissuaded me from my original assertion that this book is not worth $35 and that the character builder is a much better and cheaper way to access the information. So maybe a better way to summarize my review would be:

PHB2:
Is it worth obtaining this information? Sure.
Is it worth purchasing the book to obtain this information? Definitely not.
 
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That last paragraph applies to all character books now. I have no idea how your argument would change even for a book that you thought was the greatest character book ever.

I also 100% disagree about the deva. It's a cool race, filled with roleplaying opportunities.

I do share your concern about the barbarian and its power.
 

That's a lot of complaining.
There were a lot of things that I found lacking, what can I say? Especially for the level of hype that had been built up around it. Plus, too many people continue to sing the praises of something that I feel is not quite so deserving.

I liked it a lot more then you did. :D
Good! I'm honestly glad you regret your purchase less than I do. :)

Zaukrie said:
That last paragraph applies to all character books now.
I don't know; I disagree. I think Martial Power even had more to it and was a better purchase than the PHB2.

As for the deva, do you feel that way about the other races as well? The goliath was the only one that felt "settled" to me. Then again, it was also the one that changed the least.
 

I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on the quality of the content.
100 less pages for the same price? Whats the justification for that? Does the label of "Core Rulebook" rather than supplement really make 100 pages worth of inflated price worth it?:eek:
 

First - dwarfs make great fighters. Their resistance to being moved, second wind as a minor action, high Con (which works well with hammer and axe powers and feats) and high Wis (great for fighter opportunity attacks) make them great fighters with or without the dwarven weapon training feat.


Secondly - I was going to do my own mini-review, but since it is smaller than yours I'll tack it on here.

Overall: Disappointing, in that it isn't really a PHB2 as it is a collection of races, classes, a few magic items, a few rituals and not much else.

Races:
unlike Evilbob, I like the Deva (and I'll continue to pronounce it deeva with no worries). While they are like Dr Manhattan clones in appearance and attitude, at least it gives them a clear 'look', and I quite like the idea of their background. I think I would have preferred Wis + Cha as their key abilities though.

Gnomes, shifters, half-orcs are OK, goliaths just don't do anything for me though, they seem sorta like a 'power creep' race with no history. If they wanted a +2 Str & Con race, why not just go with one of the bigger tougher monsters? That would have a whole lot more traction. I would have preferred to see Bugbear, Hobgoblin and Goblin as a thematically linked set of races than, say, goliaths, half-orcs and shifters.

Anyway, that's just by preferences.

Classes
I didn't expect to like the avenger, but I do - although it pretty much treads on the toes of how I've always imagined paladins to be played. I can't see many paladins ending up around when someone could be an avenger.

Barbarian? I hate it. Perhaps if they had called it 'Totem Warrior' or something similar then it would have made a little more sense as the lightning, cold, thunder and fire powers appear around it. I would have greatly preferred a more 'classic' barbarian. You clearly couldn't model Conan on this class!

Bard - looks like it might be the best implementation of bard ever.

Druid - looks OK, seems to have a lot more flexibility than the arcane controller (wizard) at low level.

Invoker - feels like a pointless 'fill in the place on a grid' class. "What shall we call divine + controller, since we haven't got one of those yet". I would have preferred to see its powers divided between the wizard and the cleric.

Shaman - haven't got a feel for this one yet.

Sorcerer - I like it, it seems (in effectiveness) to be the kind of thing that lots of people wanted the 4e wizard to be. Some possibilities for other 'kinds' of sorcerer too. Does make the baby warlock a bit sad though.

Warden - yawn. Seems like another "fill in the grid" class.

Character Options
Backgrounds - I was hoping this would be good and it was feeble. Basically it gives +2 to a skill or an extra language associated with an aspect of a 'background'.

I was hoping that this would be at least as good as the "Forgotten Realms" background or the "Scales of war" background; perhaps even something for rolling up a nice detailed background for characters as we used to have fun doing in the 80's. it seems that no design work or crunch went into this at all.

Feats - far too many feats are limited by race and/or class, so the number of actual feat options anyone has doesn't increase much at all. At least there are some fun extra things in there, and they are moving away from the huge ability minimums (although not errating old things - why is epic bow criticals available to anyone regardless of ability scores, but all the PHB1 epic critical feats have steep requirements)?

Magic Items - blah. Few and flavourless from what I've seen so far.

Rituals - missed an opportunity to include lots more rituals. They've done the (IMO stupid) thing of making some rituals tied to only one class (bard). I suppose they did it because they'd killed the perform skill, and so didn't know what skill to tie it to.

Overall? C-, possibly a D+

Cheers
 

I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on the quality of the content.
100 less pages for the same price? Whats the justification for that? Does the label of "Core Rulebook" rather than supplement really make 100 pages worth of inflated price worth it?:eek:

That's how it's worked for 3e, too. PHB sells a lot more copies, so the margin can be smaller. 3e splats were smaller than the core books, too.
 

I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on the quality of the content.
100 less pages for the same price? Whats the justification for that? Does the label of "Core Rulebook" rather than supplement really make 100 pages worth of inflated price worth it?:eek:
The original PHB most likely had higher print runs which cut down its cost, and might have a bit of "loss leader" built in. So it's not that the PHB2 costs as much as the PHB, it's the PHB only costs as much as the PHB2.

Deva's I think are very cool... the white eyes and blue skin are common depictions of spiritual beings in Hindu art, which is where the word comes from. In fact, I'd say Dr. Manhattan, as a god-like being, owes a lot to that artistic tradition as well, rather that the devas riffing on him.

Races that make terrible X: I don't think this is really true for any race. A particular race that is not an optimal choice for a particular class is not the same thing as being a terrible choice, unless one subscribes to the school of thought that optimal characters are the only ones worth playing.
 

Overall I like it.

However, if I was in charge:

The barbarian is more of totem warrior, and I'd call it that. I remain afraid of its damage output.

The race options would be 2 pages, not 1. I'd put a lot more in there about fluff/roleplaying stuff. Goliaths would be more interesting if they just stole all the data from earthdawn, instead of only some of it. Gnomes need more to be something other than elves/halflings that are tricky and a different height.

The shaman seems cool. Definitely a different class than the others.

Why is channel divinity only about undead (that one, at least)? Why not abberations, or demons or whatever?

Backgrounds are weak here. come on WotC, you've done better work on this already - 10 to 20 more pages on organizations and backgrounds (basically stolen from 3.5 work) would have been huge here. It also would have addressed the "this is all rules, why wouldn't I just use the CB and Compendium" arguement somewhat.

I like the book. I think it adds to the game. But if they want me to buy these, they need to put some fluff in them, or I'll be buying DDI only.
 

Overall: Disappointing, in that it isn't really a PHB2 as it is a collection of races, classes, a few magic items, a few rituals and not much else.
Just curious... what were you expecting it to be? What should there have been in addition? Take out the combat chapter, and you just described the PHB Uno.

It's been less than a year. Too early for completely new subsystems and rules at the expense of classes and features people are still clammering for (monk, necromancers, familiars, summoning rules, etc.
 

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