New Forgotten Realms designed by FR haters?

[Jack99]

Certainly it is not any sort of moral failing that I said ...
It is a FAILURE.

Yes it is opinion.

You must not have an easy time reading opinion pieces in papers, if you need to point out when someone offers opinions without empirical evidence.

Thank you for bothering to point out it was merely my opinion. I was sure I was speaking empirically.

My pleasure. Glad to have enlightened you.

 

[Mournblade94]

My pleasure. Glad to have enlightened you.

You did well contributing where you were able. I look forward to future contributions.

You've won a free threadban for a personal attack! Congratulations! ~ PCat

 

[Jack99]

You did well contributing where you were able. I look forward to future contributions.

Attempts at personal attacks are frowned upon on this board. Even disguised as sarcasm.

However, I just want to point out something. Saying 4e FR is a failure is not an opinion, that's stating a fact. Saying you do not like it, is an opinion. This is why I posted my first comment. You are of course 100% entitled to your own opinion, and hell, you might even be right, according to a majority of those who post on messageboards. There certainly seems to be a lot of discontent. But that doesn't change what is a fact and what is an opinion.

Although I prefer 4e FR to 3.x FR, I completely understand the frustrations you (and those who agree with you) have. I felt the same when I thought they ruined the FR I loved (when they made the 3.x version).

Cheers

 

[Arnwyn]

Even if he was, though, those guys are insanely busy with writing, designing, developing, meetings, etc.

Obviously, a certain degree of familiarity with past material is indeed to be expected, even demanded. I'm not saying it's not. I do a pretty hefty amount of research for some projects, even as it is. (You'd be surprised how much re-reading of old planar material I did before writing the first Codex of Betrayal article.)

But the level of familiarity being discussed, with settings as in-depth as old FR, simply isn't something that most writers, be they full-timers or freelance, can reasonably acquire if they don't already have it. (And most who already have it will eventually reach a point where they can't keep up.) Yes, there will always be a few who are that familiar, but they're the minority.

Cry me a river!

Really now - anyone who's a professional has something called "professional development"... such as doctors, or even accountants like me. Regardless of how "insanely busy" it is at work, we're still expected to keep up with information relevant to doing our jobs and maintaining our status in the profession.

Reading up on FR stuff - when one is a full-time WotC employee and writes for said setting - is hardly something that one can't "reasonably acquire".

Of course, if the answer is "they don't get paid enough to do that" - well, that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms that could conceivably cast an... uncharitable... light on said employees, in some peoples' (very reasonable) opinion.

With that said, the "few who are that familiar", "minority" or not, could be enough to handle WotC's relatively light writing duties (due to how they're releasing setting books/articles these days).

 

[genshou]

Now the designers have decreed that the non fantastical is no longer fun, so they needed to make everything alien. For some reason WOTC seems to think they are really capable of defining fun.

This statement is so true I had to stop in the middle of reading the thread to quote it. I could play and enjoy 4E if I wasn't being constantly reminded by the rulebooks that the 4E designers are Superior and my gaming style is BadWrongFun.

In much the same way, I could play and enjoy 4E Forgotten Realms if it didn't scream at me that richly detailed settings with plenty of backstory and events happening outside of the PCs' little "bubble" are BadWrongFun settings.

 

[EATherrian]

"Meesa hava big kitty and two pokey-sticks! But are vewwy lonely. Awwww." - Driz'zzz Binks.

I'm not sure if that's the best or worst image I've had in my head.

To keep with the topic, I doubt that anyone involved with the new FR hated the setting. I'm thinking that design principles and former canon clashed, and when that happens the new design generally wins. I don't much like the new FR since I was mostly a fan of the historical continuity of the setting (Historian so be kind), and my favorite areas are gone, but I can see where it is successful from certain design goals.

 

[Cadfan]

Of course, if the answer is "they don't get paid enough to do that" - well, that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms that could conceivably cast an... uncharitable... light on said employees, in some peoples' (very reasonable) opinion.

This, and the rest of your post, is silly.

Look, I work in an area where I often have multiple clients and potential clients. If one client wants me to come in, work a week, and then go home with a check, and another client wants me to do research on his idiosyncratic needs on my own time before coming in, working for a week, and going home with a check, then all things being equal, screw that second guy. I don't owe him anything.

You want extra work, you pay for it. You don't pay for it, and, unless I haven't got anything better to do, I don't work.

 

[genshou]

Exactly. It fits the design goals of 4E, not the wishes of the former player base. During the initial buzz over 4E it became quite apparent that WotC was more interested in bringing in the MMO crowd than retaining their current customer base (plus they knew a lot of the current customer base would just go to 4E whether they really liked it or not). I would imagine the Realms got the same scrutinization before they decided it was marketable with these sweeping changes. And if it helps the setting sell well, that's better than if they'd never released a 4E Forgotten Realms at all.

Either way, I won't be running it if I'm looking for the type of campaign a 3.x Forgotten Realms would give me. But that's like saying I won't bring a life jacket on a mountain climbing expedition.

 

[Arnwyn]

This, and the rest of your post, is silly.

Of course it isn't.

But your post explains a lot. Thanks for your "comment", Cadfan!

 

[Obryn]

This statement is so true I had to stop in the middle of reading the thread to quote it. I could play and enjoy 4E if I wasn't being constantly reminded by the rulebooks that the 4E designers are Superior and my gaming style is BadWrongFun.

This is so far outside my experience that I have to ask - though this might not be the thread for it - where this is coming from?

I agree that the 4e books encourage people playing the game to have fun. I don't see where it tells me that any kind of fun I'm having is badwrong. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I mean, it's a collection of rules, and like any collection of rules it will say, "These are the rules to the game. The game is fun." But that's pretty much par for the course for any RPG, IMHO. If an RPG isn't fun, then why play it?

In much the same way, I could play and enjoy 4E Forgotten Realms if it didn't scream at me that richly detailed settings with plenty of backstory and events happening outside of the PCs' little "bubble" are BadWrongFun settings.

Again, I just don't get it. I have never felt like 4e - or 3e or 1e - has ever tried to tell me where I should find my fun. Only that I should find it, wherever it is.

-O