Doctor Proctor
First Post
Comparisons to previous editions aside, the idea of the Dragon auto-killing 3rd level PC's doesn't make a lot of sense just in general. Dragons are creatures of myth and legend that have stories told about them in many cultures. Many of these stories are about so-called "Dragon Slayers". So it makes sense that we know about them from the people that slew them.
What doesn't make sense though is that if they're that deadly, then how did anyone ever survive to tell a Dragon Slayer where the Dragon was? And 3rd level PC's, while only 3rd level, are already very powerful characters in the world 4e. That farmer that was getting mentioned? A 3rd level PC wouldn't even really need to roll to hit that guy, because he's so far below them. So unless there's a lot of level 10 parties escaping from Dragons, obviously some of the more "mundane" denizens of the world have escaped from Dragons before...and probably not through the use of extremely powerful magical items, rituals or powers either.
So while yeah, in older editions a Dragon could just one-shot PC's of much lower level, I feel that the 4e mechanics do a better job in terms of making sense. Most people would die from a single attack, the few that survive would probably die about 6-12 second later after doing NOTHING to the Dragon, but a few people would actually escape and survive to tell the tale.
Oh, and BTW, the Adult Red Dragon has 2 action points, correct? IIRC, monsters aren't limited in how they spend action points, which means that he could actually just make three breathe attacks in a row. That would essentially be like one large breathe attack, and would probably kill almost anything lower than like, say, 6th level? Hardly weak if you ask me.
@Regicide: I wouldn't call what you said a "dig", because I consider it a good thing that there's at least a potential to reach level 30. When I played 2e I played in Dark Sun. In Dark Sun you roll higher stats, and your PC's start at level 3. It was also recommended that you have either 3 or 4 (I forget the exact number) of PC's that you regularly rotate. The reason for all that is because a level 1 PC would die. A PC rolling stats out a possible 18 would probably die. And even following their rules, PC's were probably still going to die, so you should have some backups. This was within the first few pages of the campaign manual, in the character generation section. So they were basically telling you, as you were making your character, that you were probably going to die.
So no, I don't think it's a "dig" to say that 4e gives you a better chance to hit 30. It does. I think that's a good thing, but others may not. The great thing though is that now the baseline is "you can live", and it's much easier to up the difficulty level to have a more "gritty" campaign. It's much harder to realistically nerf something like a Tembo in Dark Sun, who's favorite fighting tactic is to bat you back and forth between it's paws while stealing your levels. Permanently.
What doesn't make sense though is that if they're that deadly, then how did anyone ever survive to tell a Dragon Slayer where the Dragon was? And 3rd level PC's, while only 3rd level, are already very powerful characters in the world 4e. That farmer that was getting mentioned? A 3rd level PC wouldn't even really need to roll to hit that guy, because he's so far below them. So unless there's a lot of level 10 parties escaping from Dragons, obviously some of the more "mundane" denizens of the world have escaped from Dragons before...and probably not through the use of extremely powerful magical items, rituals or powers either.
So while yeah, in older editions a Dragon could just one-shot PC's of much lower level, I feel that the 4e mechanics do a better job in terms of making sense. Most people would die from a single attack, the few that survive would probably die about 6-12 second later after doing NOTHING to the Dragon, but a few people would actually escape and survive to tell the tale.
Oh, and BTW, the Adult Red Dragon has 2 action points, correct? IIRC, monsters aren't limited in how they spend action points, which means that he could actually just make three breathe attacks in a row. That would essentially be like one large breathe attack, and would probably kill almost anything lower than like, say, 6th level? Hardly weak if you ask me.
@Regicide: I wouldn't call what you said a "dig", because I consider it a good thing that there's at least a potential to reach level 30. When I played 2e I played in Dark Sun. In Dark Sun you roll higher stats, and your PC's start at level 3. It was also recommended that you have either 3 or 4 (I forget the exact number) of PC's that you regularly rotate. The reason for all that is because a level 1 PC would die. A PC rolling stats out a possible 18 would probably die. And even following their rules, PC's were probably still going to die, so you should have some backups. This was within the first few pages of the campaign manual, in the character generation section. So they were basically telling you, as you were making your character, that you were probably going to die.
So no, I don't think it's a "dig" to say that 4e gives you a better chance to hit 30. It does. I think that's a good thing, but others may not. The great thing though is that now the baseline is "you can live", and it's much easier to up the difficulty level to have a more "gritty" campaign. It's much harder to realistically nerf something like a Tembo in Dark Sun, who's favorite fighting tactic is to bat you back and forth between it's paws while stealing your levels. Permanently.
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