D&D 4E 4E Dragons - Where's the beef?

[AnthonyRoberson]

If an Adult Red Dragon breathes on a 3rd Level Fighter in 3.5 D&D or even 2nd Editition AD&D, the odds are pretty good that he is toast. If the same thing happens in 4E, he is probably just hurt (and probably not even bloodied). Where's the beef?

 

[Cadfan]

Combats are intended to take more than one round to resolve now. The 4e fighter is probably screwed, its just going to take more than six seconds.

You already knew that though. What do you actually want to discuss, if anything?

 

[Derren]

Also, dragons, and most other solos, in 4E are rather weak and lack the damage potential to be really dangerous. They are just huge sacks of HP.

 

[AnthonyRoberson]

Combats are intended to take more than one round to resolve now. The 4e fighter is probably screwed, its just going to take more than six seconds.

You already knew that though. What do you actually want to discuss, if anything?

I understand that. I am just puzzled that with SUCH a power level discrepency that the encounter is not an immediate slam dunk. I would love to pick the designers' brains and find out the reasoning behind this design decision.

 

[Cadfan]

I understand that. I am just puzzled that with SUCH a power level discrepency that the encounter is not an immediate slam dunk. I would love to pick the designers' brains and find out the reasoning behind this design decision.

Maybe they didn't want to balance the game around creating specific aesthetic outcomes in fights that are foregone conclusions that the players will lose.

 

[Mournblade94]

If an Adult Red Dragon breathes on a 3rd Level Fighter in 3.5 D&D or even 2nd Editition AD&D, the odds are pretty good that he is toast. If the same thing happens in 4E, he is probably just hurt (and probably not even bloodied). Where's the beef?

Players are now entitled to level 30 and epic paths. If players die before level 30 the developers have found through market research the game will not be considered fun.

Admin here. I'm pretty sure you can make your point without trolling. Next time, please do so. ~ Piratecat

 

[Mengu]

Where's the beef?

It's in the action point.

If I'm an adult red dragon wanting to take down a 3rd level fighter with around 47 HP's, I use Double Attack, action point, Double Attack. That's 8d8+28 damage, average rolls should do the trick.

I've done something like that to a 3rd level paladin with a level 6'ish elite.

I understand that. I am just puzzled that with SUCH a power level discrepency that the encounter is not an immediate slam dunk. I would love to pick the designers' brains and find out the reasoning behind this design decision.

This is not a bug, it's a feature. PC's are able to see when they are outmatched in an encounter, and can handle it accordingly with a strategic retreat. This gives the DM tools for creating "run for your life" situations with less of a TPK risk.

 

[unan oranis]

HOT BEEF INJECTION:

You'll find that the limited damage expression for one shot devices more than adequate to snuff a lower level pc.

Presuming of course that you are insisting on following every rule except those of good form and appropriate encounter level; there is no reason a dragon would not have such a device or ability/template at hand.

 

[Cadfan]

Players are now entitled to level 30 and epic paths. If players die before level 30 the developers have found through market research the game will not be considered fun.

That's an interesting point. I had not considered that.

 

[Harlekin]

Wow, 6 answers and already 2 snipes by ppl who don't even play 4th and thus can have no idea what they are talking about.

Dragonbreath in older edition was quite binary. Either the players found a way to negate it, at which point the dragon was better off not using his most iconic ability. Then the dragon is reduced to claw/claw/bite like an overgrown lizard.

Or it was too powerful, killing the mage and rogue outright on a failed save. That does make for exciting stories, but makes certain game elements, such as an ambush by a dragon, rather difficult to do. Furthermore it makes the initiative check in a combat extremely important.

The 4th Dragon Breath is nasty. It will hit all or many of the PC, costing most of them ~1/4 of their hit points and giving them a crippling side effect. that is enough to be scary without being binary.