So, any consensus on PHB2 powerhouses?

[Felon]

I was both surprised and impressed that PHB2 classes don't seem to exhibit any cut-and-dried power creep. The strikers--avenger, barbarian, and sorcerer--don't seem to patently outshine their PHB predecessors. Even the controllers seemed more-or-less on a par with the wizard (at least allowing for a wizard's at-wills being too lousy to use as a baseline).

PHB2 races also seem to be fairly reasonable. The half-orc seems a little overcompensated, but that's about it.

But I haven't been on the boards much lately, and I can be behind the times when it comes to knowing what's deemed uber and what's deemed gimped.

 

[hong]

IIRC, consensus on the avenger on CharOp is that they work best without actually using avenger powers. Lots of multiclassed ranger/av fighter/av warlock/av etc monstrosities.

 

[Inyssius]

And, conversely, that barbarians work best when they're actually another class multiclassing for barbarian powers.

Shamans, I am told, are tricky to get the hang of; ditto wildshape-specialist druids.

 

[Thaed]

Power Mongering

I'm a bit anal sometimes, but I've been testing the classes out by creating 11th level characters of each class.

(It so happens I'm playing in a game where we are currently 11th level.)

For pure single hit might, pound for pound I'll take a dragonborn sorceror with dragon magic.

Strictly by the book, with assigned stats, and DMG guildelines for magic for starting characters greater than first level, the sorceror can put out
19 points of damage minimum per at will used as a basic attack.

He can also throw out 3D10+16 or optionally 6d6 +16 with a first level power.


Of course his defense doesn't match up to the power curve.


A tricked out fighter with multiclass warlord is virtually unstoppable. At least in the Scales of War campaign I play in.

Massive AC and defenses. Can heal himself all day long. Chips away at the opponents until they drop.

The best offense is a good defense.


4E does a good job of balancing the classes. On the top end the damage just doesn't always scale up as it should. In my opinion combats should take the same amount of time at 1st level as they do at 30th level. (If you are fighting someone of equal strength.)

I think the higher level powers need to deal more damage.


The swordmage is probably the closest to a broken class, but it isn't really qualified for that title either.

PHB2 classes in general are a bit more well rounded and thought out than PHB classes.


Have opinion will post.

 

[Asmor]

In the game I'm playing an Avenger in, there are three other strikers:

1 warlock made by an experienced 4e player
1 warlock made by a 3e "grognard" (lol at the thought) who's never played 4e before
1 barbarian made by me using the playtest rules before PHB2 came out, and adopted by a new player because it was convenient
1 avenger, made by and played by me

The warlocks really don't seem to be doing much damage. The barbarian does a pretty good amount, though he's not completely optimized for it (he's a kobold, so using a craghammer...)

My avenger really does seem to do way more damage than the locks and a good amount more damage than the barb.

 

[yesnomu]

The PHBIIers all seem pretty competent at their jobs--though I haven't seen Wardens and Avengers in action yet. My barb's damage seems pretty comparable to our party's Ranger, and my Shaman gives out possibly more health than the party's Warlord, but more spread out. I'd call the PHBII near-perfectly balanced, really, with the exception of the Expertise feats.

 

[Felon]

I'm a bit anal sometimes, but I've been testing the classes out by creating 11th level characters of each class.

(It so happens I'm playing in a game where we are currently 11th level.)

For pure single hit might, pound for pound I'll take a dragonborn sorceror with dragon magic.

Strictly by the book, with assigned stats, and DMG guildelines for magic for starting characters greater than first level, the sorceror can put out
19 points of damage minimum per at will used as a basic attack.

He can also throw out 3D10+16 or optionally 6d6 +16 with a first level power.

What are you using for assigned stats? The standard array that gives out a 16 and 14 as the highest numbers? Point-buy almost always results in pretty rididculous min-maxed characters, so the idea that anyone uses that method in 4e is a real head-shaker.

It looks like the sorcerer gets a relatively small (or at least low-capped) damage boost from his secondary ability score, but isn't restricted to dealing extra damage to one target like all the PHB strikers are, so he really gets a lot more mileage out of AoE powers. So far, in a group with an infernal warlock and a chaos sorcerer, they seem pretty well-balanced against each other. The dazzling ray daily is comparable in damage to flames of Phologestus [sic], for instance.

 

[Klaus]

What are you using for assigned stats? The standard array that gives out a 16 and 14 as the highest numbers? Point-buy almost always results in pretty rididculous min-maxed characters, so the idea that anyone uses that method in 4e is a real head-shaker.

It looks like the sorcerer gets a relatively small (or at least low-capped) damage boost from his secondary ability score, but isn't restricted to dealing extra damage to one target like all the PHB strikers are, so he really gets a lot more mileage out of AoE powers. So far, in a group with an infernal warlock and a chaos sorcerer, they seem pretty well-balanced against each other. The dazzling ray daily is comparable in damage to flames of Phologestus [sic], for instance.

Point-buy can't be used for extreme minmaxing, since the rules only allow one stat to be below 10. So you'd be stuck with 18, 14, 11, 10, 10, 8.

 

[Remathilis]

Point-buy can't be used for extreme minmaxing, since the rules only allow one stat to be below 10. So you'd be stuck with 18, 14, 11, 10, 10, 8.

What about 16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8?

A DB dragon sorcerer would have 18's in Str and Cha in that method.

 

[yesnomu]

Yeah, I'm confused about the Dazzling Ray hubbub, too. That's equal to a 3W from a heavy-weapon wielder, like the fighter's Brute Strike. You know, the underpowered one?

Heck, the Barb can do 6d6, with the double-stacked attributes to boot, as a level 1 encounter! Of course, using that power too freely is not recommended...