Trek Spoiler Spectacular! (Forked Thread: The new Star Trek movie is...)

[Umbran]

Forked from: The new Star Trek movie is...

Folks, this thread is going to be absolutely filled with movie spoilers.

DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE SPOILED

I am going to consider that all sufficient warning that spoiler blocks should not be required in this thread. If you are still reading this, you only have yourself to blame if you learn things you didn't want to know, got it? Any gripes about that will get no sympathy whatsoever.

But, the intertia thing proved true the entire movie. The coincidences were noted slighly by the old spock and during the conversation with the new spock.

In general, the rules of RPGs do not equate to the physics of the game world setting, right? By the same logic, I would not take a dramatic necessity of the franchise to imply some sort of physical reality of the fictional universe. They all have to end up on that ship as a business necessity for making the movie.

Because, by your logic, there is no dramatic tension around the lives of Kirk and Spock. The Universe cannot allow these men to die, because they are too important.

Also note the several people in the movie who told kirk how important he is (including nero, old spock and captain pike). Kirk is a fixed intertia point, more important than romulus. I say that because you see 6 billion people on one planet, i see trillions of people kirk saved across the universe including the entire federation ten to twenty times over.

I am sorry, but Kirk isn't that unique a human being - one of the major themes of the series is the strength and ability of Humanity, in general, as exemplified by all the Starfleet personnel we see. If the Universe is so un-clever that it cannot find a way to get by without one, single man, and finds it must kill billions of others rather than lose him... Sorry, that stretches plausibility just a bit much.

Much like my biggest problem with the movie. The absolutely most implausible thing, the one point I could not swallow....

You don't give a person fresh out of Academy (ranked Ensign or Lieutenant, at best) command of a starship, much less the biggest, baddest starship around. A machine with enough power to lay waste to an entire planet? The Federation fleet flagship!?! No. Sorry. I don't care how bloody heroic he was. Give him a promotion to be first officer, and then have the next movie be a few years later (since it wouldn't come out for a few years out time anyway) when he's gotten Captain, sure. But not outright command at the end of the movie. That was just wrong.

Not enough to ruin the movie as a whole, but enough to make me gripe about it

 

[Dire Bare]

You don't give a person fresh out of Academy (ranked Ensign or Lieutenant, at best) command of a starship, much less the biggest, baddest starship around. A machine with enough power to lay waste to an entire planet? The Federation fleet flagship!?! No. Sorry. I don't care how bloody heroic he was. Give him a promotion to be first officer, and then have the next movie be a few years later (since it wouldn't come out for a few years out time anyway) when he's gotten Captain, sure. But not outright command at the end of the movie. That was just wrong.

Well, sure that isn't going to happen in the real world . . . but this is Star Trek, Kirk is the captain, and what else were they going to do?

Not promoting him permanently at the end of the movie would just mean wasting valuable storytelling time in New Star Trek 2!

 

[Jack7]

This summed up my impressions of the film.

The Fleet Review of Star Trek

It's got lots of spoilers too I reckon.

 

[John Crichton]

You don't give a person fresh out of Academy (ranked Ensign or Lieutenant, at best) command of a starship, much less the biggest, baddest starship around. A machine with enough power to lay waste to an entire planet? The Federation fleet flagship!?! No. Sorry. I don't care how bloody heroic he was. Give him a promotion to be first officer, and then have the next movie be a few years later (since it wouldn't come out for a few years out time anyway) when he's gotten Captain, sure. But not outright command at the end of the movie. That was just wrong.

Not enough to ruin the movie as a whole, but enough to make me gripe about it

No gripes here. Nor was it wrong. There is a long military tradition of honoring the recommendation of admirals and captains. Pike wanted him to be captain. Good enough for me and plenty good enough for Starfleet command.

He was already promoted to first officer, BTW. It would have been a demotion after the fact.

 

[Pbartender]

Because, by your logic, there is no dramatic tension around the lives of Kirk and Spock. The Universe cannot allow these men to die, because they are too important.

Regarding the idea of "temporal inertia", since I brought it up...

No... He's got the idea wrong, it that's what he thinks.

In the context of the movie, the planet Vulcan and its collective inhabitants have much more temporal inertia than the starship Enterprise and its collective crew. However, noone was actively trying to change the history of the Enterprise.

Kirk, to use the most obvious example, was simply collateral damage as far as our temporal trainwreck is concerned. His father died, instead of living. That caused a major disruption in Kirk's life and a leeser one in Starfleet in general. On the whole, however, it didn't appreciably effect history as a whole, just a few details. Even then, within two decades, the inertia of history begins to sort things out, and while some things are still a little different (the Enterprise is built in Iowa?) everything starts sorting itself out... Kirk and Spock join Starfleet, the Enterprise gets built in time for Kirk to take command, etc.

Nero destroyed the planet Vulcan. It took a huge amount of effort (25 years of planning and an artificial black hole). It will make a huge impact on the future history, and will take a very long time for history to sort itself out and get back to where it should be.

Kirk's life was easy to disrupt (it happened practically by accident), but sets itself to rights fairly quickly.

The changes in the lives of the crew are the eqivalent of a temporal trip on a sidewalk crack. Destroying Vulcan was the equivalent of a temporal train wreck.

 

[Umbran]

Well, sure that isn't going to happen in the real world . . . but this is Star Trek, Kirk is the captain, and what else were they going to do?

Make him First Officer, and allow a few years to pass in the timeline before the next movie. Maybe with Pike giving him a "someday, this will all be yours" speech, or something. Or even stick a transition shot of his series of promotions, or something.

Not promoting him permanently at the end of the movie would just mean wasting valuable storytelling time in New Star Trek 2!

Hardly. Messaging "a couple years have passed, and Kirk got promoted" would probably take about 30 seconds. They took longer with Scotty bumbling through tubes of water, and that wasn't "story" worth mentioning.

 

[Fast Learner]

Except then the story couldn't have continued in the next film with the relationships we have now. Instead we'd have the "couple of years later" relationships, which I doubt is the goal.

 

[Mallus]

James T. Kirk's in the captain's chair aboard the Enterprise and all's right with the world.

It could end no other way.

 

[Pbartender]

Hardly. Messaging "a couple years have passed, and Kirk got promoted" would probably take about 30 seconds.

Really. All you'd have to do is start the movie with the ceremony at which Pike is already Admiral, and Kirk is getting promoted to Captain... Cut to the reveal where Kirk getting is orders to take command of the Enterprise. Done.

 

[drothgery]

Except then the story couldn't have continued in the next film with the relationships we have now. Instead we'd have the "couple of years later" relationships, which I doubt is the goal.

Since, that's normally the case in movies, I kind of think otherwise.

Kirk was a cadet about to graduate -- i.e. a half-step away from an Ensign (unless Starfleet followed the convention of some navies and comissioned the top x% of the class from the Academy as junior Leiutenants). Best case, he should end up a rank higher than expected, and in a highly desireable spot for an officer of that rank.