Understanding Charge

[Switchback]

I'm having a hard time interpreting what "move directly to the nearest square" means in the definition of a charge action.

I have read answers that supposedly you do not have to go in a straight line during a charge. The problem I have with this is that it allows characters to make wildly erratic charges when there are obstacles in their way, when for some reason if those obstacles were not there, they could not charge along the same path. This does not make sense to me.

Here is a diagram to illustrate a few points.

The black boxes on the hex grid represent slabs of stone, 4 feet tall, that completely fill the squares they sit on. They do not block LoS. Let's assume for these examples the attackers have just one action left or that they have used their move action.

• Figure ‘A’ wants to Charge figure ‘B’. If the slab of stone was not there, the attacker would incur an opportunity attack from Figure ‘C’ if he were to follow the normal charge rules. Fortunately for him, since a slab of stone is in his way, he has two ‘nearest direct’ paths to choose from and can now charge around the slab and avoid an opportunity attack. If he can do this when an obstacle is in his way, why wouldn’t he just charge in this fashion if the slab *was not* there?

• Figure ‘D’ wants to charge figure ‘E’. In a situation where the slab north of him did not exist he could not charge, because he can’t move 2 squares first. But using the ruling advised in some places, he can suddenly now charge figure E because he is forced to move 2 squares to reach his target. The supposed cover is actually making the defending character move vulnerable!

This interpretation of charge makes little sense and is not logically consistent with what the Charge action seems to be representing. If such wildly erratic moves were possible during a charge, an attacker would choose to use them whether obstacles were in his path or not. He would also likely be granted the ability to hit a target from a square that was not the nearest to him, such as on a targets side or even moving behind them.

We had a similar situation to these occur in our last session. A monster who was behind a low line of impassable rocks charged up and around them to hit someone several squares off beyond the other side. The non straight line rule really seems to trivialize terrain and obstacles. If the charged player had instead had a few friendly players in front of him occupying the 'nearest squares' instead of a piece of terrain, he would not have been able to have been charged.

It makes little sense to me how the presence of obstacles opens up or not, new options for paths a character can take on a charge. If you use a more basic straight line approach (and you already usually have a Move Action to set this up), Charges become much more straightforward and consistent.

 

[Victim]

My interpretation is that each square of a charge move must reduce the distance to the target. So those charges lines are illegal since they include

However, (4,2), (5,2), (6,2) in (x,y) from bottom left corner are an equal distance from A. So B could charge into (4,2) then (4,3) or (5,3) to avoid C's attack. Assuming that the block wasn't there or that he could scramble/jump over it.

The manueverability of charging comes from using the diagonal properties of 4e. Consider the grid clear of obstacles with a character X in (4,1) trying to charge a character in (4,7). There's the obvious straight line charge along the 4 column. However, all the way out to (1,4) and (7,4), diagonal moves are also bringing the character just as close to the target as the straight line. So there's basically a diamond of possible charge routes bounded by those points.

 

[Switchback]

That makes more sense to me. I think a requirement of the charging character moving closer each square gets the job done much better than the examples in the first post.

That way if you have an attacker 5 squares in a straight line (same row) from another character that is behind a pillar, that attacker can charge more or less in a straight line to one of the squares on his targets side, and he simply has to make one diagonal movement along the route to get to the nearest square.

It's not like he is substantially changing his momentum once he gets going and you don't have to deal with so many inconsistencies such as 'Z' shaped moves, when you otherwise would never be allowed to make them.

 

[tmatk]

...

The black boxes on the hex grid represent slabs of stone, 4 feet tall, that completely fill the squares they sit on. They do not block LoS. Let's assume for these examples the attackers have just one action left or that they have used their move action.

...

By RAW, does LoS or LoE have any bearing on a PCs ability to charge?

 

[Switchback]

By RAW, does LoS or LoE have any bearing on a PCs ability to charge?

Charge does not have any special additional rules listed about these things, but as a charge is a attack you have to be able to target the creature to attack (and charge) it. Which you can't do if you can't see it, don't know its there, or don't have line of effect.

If for instance the DM has just laid out a map with two hallways in a 'L' shape, you could not just charge around the corner because he laid some Orcs in the adjacent hall that your characters don't know are there. You could of course, move to the corner, see them, then charge.

Similarly if you were following a creature and he went into a pitch black room, you wouldn't be able to charge them directly.

Though you could use the "Targeting what you can't see" rules to blindly charge into the room and pick a square that you hope the creature is in to attack. There would be a good chance you end up wasting your turn though. I would expect the DM to make you pick a square as well where you would end up making your attack against, and not letting you have an entire row of squares to hope that the creature is somewhere along.

RAW would suggest you still must pick a square as well. Nor does it seem realistic that your character could bump into something in the dark running full speed and be ready to attack at any point along that path.

This is assuming you have failed your checks to determine its location or exact square.

 

[eriktheguy]

Movement Requirements: You must move at least
2 squares from your starting position, and you must
move directly to the nearest square from which you
can attack the enemy. You can’t charge if the nearest
square is occupied. Moving over difficult terrain
costs extra squares of movement as normal. (PHB1, 287)

You must move directly to the nearest square from which you can attack the enemy. You may not move around objects to charge, since this would not be moving directly. Moving directly could be interpreted to mean that a straight line passes through each square between your starting square and the destination square. Good question though, your suggested paradox had me puzzled for awhile!

 

[GorTeX]

Similarly if you were following a creature and he went into a pitch black room, you wouldn't be able to charge them directly.

Though you could use the "Targeting what you can't see" rules to blindly charge into the room and pick a square that you hope the creature is in to attack. There would be a good chance you end up wasting your turn though. I would expect the DM to make you pick a square as well where you would end up making your attack against, and not letting you have an entire row of squares to hope that the creature is somewhere along.

RAW would suggest you still must pick a square as well. Nor does it seem realistic that your character could bump into something in the dark running full speed and be ready to attack at any point along that path.

This is assuming you have failed your checks to determine its location or exact square.

RAW (with updates included), you know exactly where the creature is unless they made a successful stealth check.

 

[On Puget Sound]

IMC I allow a short 1-square charge (I call it a lunge). It follows all the rules of a charge but grants no bonus to the attacker. It just seems too weird to me that you can attack someone 10 feet away in a single action, but it takes 2 actions to attack them if they are 5 feet away.

 

[eamon]

IMC I allow a short 1-square charge (I call it a lunge). It follows all the rules of a charge but grants no bonus to the attacker. It just seems too weird to me that you can attack someone 10 feet away in a single action, but it takes 2 actions to attack them if they are 5 feet away.

Doing so nerf's the already weak prone condition however - I wouldn't. Think of it as too short a run to successfully build up speed for a charge attack without which your lunge is trivially deflected.

Especially monsters tend to have quite decent basic attacks, meaning that charging is very good option anyhow.

 

[eamon]

Charge does not have any special additional rules listed about these things, but as a charge is a attack you have to be able to target the creature to attack (and charge) it. Which you can't do if you can't see it, don't know its there, or don't have line of effect.

Watch out; there's two different terms "Attack" being used in D&D. One attack means "attack power", and the other means "attack roll". Attack power's don't automatically have target's, but they do contain attack rolls which do. In short, you must be able to target the creature once you make an attack roll, not necessarily before you start your attack power.

After all, some attack powers don't even directly target creatures at all!

So, I'm not sure whether or not you need to see the creature before charging - you certainly don't need to roll to hit before moving, and if it turns out that your target is invalid, you've just made a move as a standard action...

Of course, requiring LoS would make some sense; but that could go either way, I suppose.

In any case, WRT moving directly, I once asked CS about this, and they interpreted directly to mean "along a shortest path" - so you've got some flexibility in how to move, but you must move closer with each square you move. This interpretation also has the advantage of permitting adjudication of readied actions or other interruptions easily: If the battlefield changes half-way through the charge, you're still bound by the limitation that each square of movement must bring you closer (so if that's no longer possible, you lose the charge).