Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[nightwyrm]

Personally, I found it really odd that they decided to have a bloodline ability that gives a +1 DC to a metamagicked spell.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

What DC raising property are you referring to?

DC = 10 + 5 (5th level spell) + 5 (Cha 20) +1 (Spell Focus) +1 (Greater Spell Focus) = 22

Exactly the same as 3.5. And not at all unreasonable, she has two feats dedicated to it.

On the other hand, it has already been pointed out that Valeros was built specifically to highlight certain new elements of the game and not as a max min. He has a really really low Will save. That is no reflection on this example. Particularly since Cone of Cold is a Ref save. He needs a 13. A 60% chance of failure doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and a different build could significantly cut into that.

For give or take, both previews have succeeded at "highlighting certain new elements of the game."
I really don´t know. Is "can boost his/her spell DCs" really a fix or change 3.5 has needed? This doesn´t look like changes that were needed, thats just... fiddly.

 

[AllisterH]

Personally, I found it really odd that they decided to have a bloodline ability that gives a +1 DC to a metamagicked spell.

This is what I'm referring to. True, it doesn't increase the maximum DC of a spell but that was a major drawback to the heighten feat. There was also the hint that she at 15th level can gain another +2 bonus to the DC...

Sure, Valeros has a 60% chance of beating that reflex save, but what happens if Seoni had been an enchanter focused character instead of a blaster?

That's my main concern...the boosting of the DC has to be tightly controlled as we saw from the old Archmage PrC...

The change to STAVES at first glance seems to actually though make them actually viable (one of the more cost-ineffective items from 3.x) -although I'll have to see how it compares to simply making a wand with 10 charges...

 

[billd91]

For give or take, both previews have succeeded at "highlighting certain new elements of the game."
I really don´t know. Is "can boost his/her spell DCs" really a fix or change 3.5 has needed? This doesn´t look like changes that were needed, thats just... fiddly.

The whole "bloodline" thing is a fix to the sorcerer class in general so that there are higher level class-based benefits other than raw spellcasting. Without them, you see the problem we saw in 3.x, that there's no reason to stay in the base class if there's a full caster level prestige class that offers other benefits.

The DC-raising abilities that Seoni has come from the arcane bloodline, which presumes the character comes from an ancestry of magic-wielders or at least a notable one or two. Other bloodlines offer different benefits.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Without them, you see the problem we saw in 3.x, that there's no reason to stay in the base class if there's a full caster level prestige class that offers other benefits.

I still don't get this complaint.

If you use prestige classes in your game, you are accepting the premise that the PCs will leave the base classes.

If for some reason you don't want the players to leave the base classes, then don't allow prestige classes.

There's no simpler fix-- assuming a fix is needed.

Balancing the base classes against the prestige classes often just feels to me like balance for balance sake-- with no real introspection on why prestige classes exist, or whether single-class purity is an ideal to be rewarded.

The heavy mace isn't as good as the morningstar. It's worse in almost every way.

Time to rebalance the mace?

 

[billd91]

I still don't get this complaint.

If you use prestige classes in your game, you are accepting the premise that the PCs will leave the base classes.

No. I accept the premise that characters may want to leave the base classes for some particular specialty.

If for some reason you don't want the players to leave the base classes, then don't allow prestige classes.

It's not that I don't want them to not leave the base classes. I want them to have a proper trade-off of choices. There should be something appropriately lost by giving up the base class. Good game design should avoid blatantly dominated strategies given a type of character to play.

The heavy mace isn't as good as the morningstar. It's worse in almost every way.

Time to rebalance the mace?

No. The mace is significantly more durable (sunder table: one-handed metal hafted vs one-handed hafted). That offers enough balance for me.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

No. The mace is significantly more durable (sunder table: one-handed metal hafted vs one-handed hafted). That offers enough balance for me.

You should probably shop at the metal-hafted morningstar store.

 

[Betote]

Sure, Valeros has a 60% chance of beating that reflex save, but what happens if Seoni had been an enchanter focused character instead of a blaster?

In that case, Valeros has a Wisdom above 8, took the Iron Will feat and has a couple of magic items available. You see, Valeros was build specifically to fail Will saves, so it's pointless to use him as an example of how easy is for high level fighters to fail them.

 

[Starbuck_II]

1st (8/day, 7 remaining)—burning hands (DC 18), enlarge person, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield

She chose both shield and mage armor...that seems bad idea due to limited spell known choices.
Plus, Shield uses up a round unlike Mage armor (1 hr/level). Granted she has Quicken spell.

Feats Alertness (from familiar), Dodge, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Quicken Spell, Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Penetration, Still Spell

Didn't Sorc no used to be able to Quicken? Oh, I see Sorc are no longer limited by increased casting time with quicken.
That is a nice change.

Combat Gear lesser metamagic rod of empower, potion of cure serious wounds (2), scroll of greater dispel magic, scroll of wall of force; Other Gear cloak of resistance +2, headband of mental prowess +2 (Wis and Cha),

Wis bonus item? I don't think she needs it that badly. A bonus Con item seems more useable (for her low health).

Wait, they made Ice Storm act like sleet storm as well as damage?

Dispel Magic only works against 1 spell but no caster level limit.

G, Dispel works on 1 spell/4 lvs. Wow, I am impressed that is a solid change.

Mirror Image is weaker now: even a miss can kill the images.
Staffs can now be recharged each day.

 

[Roman]

No. I accept the premise that characters may want to leave the base classes for some particular specialty.



It's not that I don't want them to not leave the base classes. I want them to have a proper trade-off of choices. There should be something appropriately lost by giving up the base class. Good game design should avoid blatantly dominated strategies given a type of character to play.



No. The mace is significantly more durable (sunder table: one-handed metal hafted vs one-handed hafted). That offers enough balance for me.

I have mixed feelings on the issue - somewhere in between what you and Wulf say.