Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[Kobold Avenger]

A level 14 fighter...

Looks like less BIG 6. I see a magic weapon (1), armor (2), and ring (3). Of course, I don't know what a "belt of physical perfection +2" is, but if ends up a "belt of Str +2 with extras", then all this guy is missing in the cloak of resistance. Speaking of which...

That's a belt of +2 str, con and dex.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

Color me a bit more unimpressed. Unless there is something absolutely awesome in those feats I'm missing, he's really not that much better off than our 3.5 fighter.

Although some of your observations are correct, I would remind everyone that these characters are being built to show off certain aspects of the rules, which does not necessarily coincide with the best build possible. Besides, I like a character with a flaw... and considering Valeros' backstory, a poor Will save makes sense.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

So, while the fighter is even more stacked to ginzu through low AC foes before they can pose much of a threat, he's still poor at avoiding a hit (and soaking the damage) and still poor against those mind-magic wielders.

Looks like he could use a couple of action points to boost/reroll those saves, and maybe a dodge combat reaction to boost his AC by half his BAB...

 

[Remathilis]

Although some of your observations are correct, I would remind everyone that these characters are being built to show off certain aspects of the rules, which does not necessarily coincide with the best build possible. Besides, I like a character with a flaw... and considering Valeros' backstory, a poor Will save makes sense.

Granted, I realize that we weren't talking CharOp board level optimization, I was a little underwhelmed. Of course, it makes me feel better to know he's not going to throw what little balance HL D&D has out the window with new feats and talents, but it doesn't fix some of the underlying math problems either (seriously, I can live with a low will save, but a +3 at 14th level would make me feel cheap as a DM to force this guy to make will saves.)

 

[Primal]

A level 14 fighter...

Looks like less BIG 6. I see a magic weapon (1), armor (2), and ring (3). Of course, I don't know what a "belt of physical perfection +2" is, but if ends up a "belt of Str +2 with extras", then all this guy is missing in the cloak of resistance. Speaking of which...

WILL +3 Save?!?!?!?! Sigh. Welcome back, Mr. Dominated Fighter. Hope you enjoy beating the crap out of your fellow teammates.

I hope they've cop.... er, modeled some sort of 'Save ends'-type of mechanic similar to 4E, *or* nerfed those spells a bit; as I typically play fighters, this has been a persistent problem for me in 3E at high levels *even* if I get resistance bonuses and invest in Iron Will and high Wis.

Of course, that giant it still going to hit him more often than not (+26/+21/+16 vs AC 28). Similarly, the fighter is going to crack his 27 AC easily on the first (4/7), adequately on second (9/12) and barely on the third (14/17). Ah, flurry of misses! Least we can power attack for maj... oh wait. The giant? Well, when those hits hit (and they will more than the fighters) he's going to do 25-45 damage per hit (before crits) or in one full attack back, he'll bring that 137 hp fighter down between half-hp and and nearly dead. Hows that hp boost working for ya?

Oh, and I was comparing against a CR 13.

So, while the fighter is even more stacked to ginzu through low AC foes before they can pose much of a threat, he's still poor at avoiding a hit (and soaking the damage) and still poor against those mind-magic wielders. Least he won't run in fear though!

Color me a bit more unimpressed. Unless there is something absolutely awesome in those feats I'm missing, he's really not that much better off than our 3.5 fighter.

Well, you're indeed missing the benefits of Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike, which enable you to give up iterative attacks for extra damage (esp. useful against high-AC foes). My own Beta fighter also uses Devastating Blow (a single attack that is a crit if it hits) in concert with some of the Critical Feats (Staggering Critical et al.) against enemies with high AC.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Also the fact that you may now move 30' in that armor and from the Preview charge and vital strike it seems. Yeah that's nice

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Although some of your observations are correct, I would remind everyone that these characters are being built to show off certain aspects of the rules, which does not necessarily coincide with the best build possible. Besides, I like a character with a flaw... and considering Valeros' backstory, a poor Will save makes sense.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

My problem with him is he really serves to illustrate the flaws of high level play, and doesnt do much to show any real improvement to the fighter class. He's still at the whim of casters with save or suck spells/effects due to his terrible saves. Against comparable level melee monsters, he's a grease spot if he's stupid enough to remain in melee in order to actually pull off a full attack (unless he kills the target in one round). His minor boost on a charge doesnt matter against real melee threats as using it just sets him up to eat a full attack. You even further lowered his survivability by lowering the benefits he can get from expertise. The only real boost I see is to the power of his full attack, which wasnt a common concern about high level play to begin with. Were I using this, I'd still have to give fighters bonus move actions per day... his choice to dual wield just serves to illustrate how the full round attack option is a problematic design.

Unless the Beastiary significantly lowers damage output and monster abilities, it seems like fighters are still screwed without constant babysitting from a cleric, and not properly dominating combats to compensate for low utility outside of combat.

 

[Remathilis]

I hope they've cop.... er, modeled some sort of 'Save ends'-type of mechanic similar to 4E, *or* nerfed those spells a bit; as I typically play fighters, this has been a persistent problem for me in 3E at high levels *even* if I get resistance bonuses and invest in Iron Will and high Wis.

One hopes. Otherwise, the rogue is going to be well-aware of what those six-attacks are like after the mind-flayer dominates him...

Well, you're indeed missing the benefits of Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike, which enable you to give up iterative attacks for extra damage (esp. useful against high-AC foes). My own Beta fighter also uses Devastating Blow (a single attack that is a crit if it hits) in concert with some of the Critical Feats (Staggering Critical et al.) against enemies with high AC.

So if he uses imp. vital strike + power attack vs. our storm giant, he does between 24-45 damage per round (ignoring crits). The giant is just going to grind him into goo faster.

All Valeros does is illustrate the following:

* Fighters still need a full-time cleric healing him every round to survive melee-happy foes at high-levels.
* Dual-wielding still sucks and is a feat-sink.
* Charm, stun, and hold spells are still the bane of warrior types.
* The big six is still there, even if they a slightly diminished.

 

[dm4hire]

Preview #3 is up featuring

Seoni
Female human sorcerer 10
Init +2; Senses Perception +11
Defense
AC 23, touch 15, flat-footed 20; (+4 armor, +2 deflection, +2 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 shield)
hp 57 (10d6+20)
Fort +6, Ref +7, Will +12
DR 10/adamantine
Offense
Spd 30 ft.
Melee staff of fire +4 (1d6–1)
Ranged ray +6 (by spell)
Special Attacks metamagic adept (2/day)
Spells Known (CL 10th)
5th (4/day)—cone of cold (DC 22)
4th (6/day, 5 remaining)—dimension door, ice storm, stoneskin, wall of fire
3rd (7/day)—dispel magic, fly, haste, lightning bolt (DC 20)
2nd (7/day, 6 remaining)—invisibility, mirror image, resist energy, scorching ray, web (DC 17)
1st (8/day, 7 remaining)—burning hands (DC 18), enlarge person, identify, mage armor, magic missile, shield
0 (at will)—acid splash, arcane mark, daze (DC 15), detect magic, light, mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic
Statistics Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 20
Base Atk +5; CMB +4; CMD 20
Feats Alertness (from familiar), Dodge, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus (evocation), Quicken Spell, Spell Focus (evocation), Spell Penetration, Still Spell
Skills Bluff +14, Climb +2, Fly +11 (+16 using fly), Knowledge (local) +9, Perception +11, Spellcraft +9
Languages Common
SQ arcane bloodline, arcane bond (familiar, lizard), bloodline arcana (+1 DC to metamagic spells)
Combat Gear lesser metamagic rod of empower, potion of cure serious wounds (2), scroll of greater dispel magic, scroll of wall of force; Other Gear cloak of resistance +2, headband of mental prowess +2 (Wis and Cha), ring of feather falling, ring of protection +2, slippers of spider climbing, staff of fire

There is also a full write up and details for the new Mirror Image spell at Paizo's Blog

Observations:

Jason spoiled in a post on the Paizo boards that all the bloodlines from the Beta are in the final, plus the new arcane line.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Special Attacks metamagic adept (2/day)

What does this do?