Hybrid Playtest part 2

[rjs]

I really dig the fact that this is compatible with multiclassing. It means that you can take two "complimentary" classes to make a good hybrid, and expand your ability even further with multiclassing.

Bardbarians (warrior skalds!) ahoy!

Although I'm bound by the cone of silence, I will say that when we were working on the hybrid rules (then called dual-classing), I really wanted to make it possible to play a "fighter/magic-user/thief." I'm glad development and my fellow designers felt the same way

 

[I'm A Banana]

Although I'm bound by the cone of silence, I will say that when we were working on the hybrid rules (then called dual-classing), I really wanted to make it possible to play a "fighter/magic-user/thief." I'm glad development and my fellow designers felt the same way

Kickin'! I knew you were one of my favorite designers for a reason, man (a reason beyond the stellar Exemplars of Evil/Elder Evils one-two punch in late 3e, of course).

I really like the big level of creativity that the hybrid classes open up, even with the caveat that some combos won't be quite as good as others. The synergy that they allow could easily make up for those 1-3 points of accuracy by the number-crunching players, and the players that aren't number-crunching aren't going to care about those 1-3 points as long as the DM doesn't throw them at higher-level encounters all day long.

I think this is more what "multiclass" means to me, while the official multiclass system is more of a "sub-class" system where you dabble in a side field, but you're still mainly what you are.

 

[vagabundo]

Kickin'! I knew you were one of my favorite designers for a reason, man (a reason beyond the stellar Exemplars of Evil/Elder Evils one-two punch in late 3e, of course).

They are suppose to be updated for 4e, but seem to have been in editing limbo for months.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

I'm pretty sure you can only take the feat once and thats it. The one exception to that being if you choose the hybrid paragon path. Then you get to take the feat one more time.

It states that directly in the design and development article, but not in the hybrid article.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Barbarian/Warden that seems like a very solid combination to me.

And at least now a Barbarian/Cleric is a viable combination.

It seems like many of these suffer from having too many powers for such limited numbers of powers they can get. I propose that there should be a feat that gives an extra at-will power, with the special rule that Humans get even more from this feat (whether it be an additional at-will in addition or a +1 bonus to attacks with at-wills).

 

[Nymrohd]

Nice, very nice. I like the changes, they seem to fix most of the obvious issues. Now we can really get to playtesting this. I foresee at least three of my players who have multiclass feats to switch to hybrids now (fighter/warlord, cleric/fighter and bard/paladin).

As for very high AC values, there are many builts that can get you over 50 with similar or less investment. Truth be told, at some point AC gets so high that monsters may heavily consider ignoring the marked defender they simply cannot hit, and go for someone else regardless of consequences.

 

[MrMyth]

Some one want to do some math for me here...

Deva Avenger/Swordmage with Armoe of faith AND Warding (+3 each) and the improved feat for armor of faith (+2 at 11th level) and greater swordmage warding (+1 all def) at level 11 (so can have 1 from feat and one from paragon hybrid) start with an 18 in INt and Wis... bump every chance

level 11 with +3 armor +9 classes +5 Int +5 1/2 level is 32...can we get to be unhitable???

at 30th it is worse +8 (+6 starweave)armor +11 class +8 Int (inless demigod) +15 half level...42 AC...upgrade to lethar is +2 more or hide for +3

I see a problem here

There is indeed a problem - but it isn't really with the Hybrid rules as much as the Avenger rules. Improved Armor of Faith, essentially, should either be an Armor bonus, or only work in Cloth Armor or no armor, or something similar.

This build does take the issue even further, giving the extra AC from Swordmage plus the ability to have something to do (Defend) with that awesome AC. But any real fix should really hit the Avenger, rather than the Hybrid rules.

 

[Herschel]

Some one want to do some math for me here...

Deva Avenger/Swordmage with Armoe of faith AND Warding (+3 each) and the improved feat for armor of faith (+2 at 11th level) and greater swordmage warding (+1 all def) at level 11 (so can have 1 from feat and one from paragon hybrid) start with an 18 in INt and Wis... bump every chance

I see a problem here

Yes, the problem is feat allocation. You have one at first, one at second, one at fourth. If you spend the first on Armor of Faith, second on Leather Armor, third on improved Armor of Faith then your enemies likely just walk away from you, taking the OAs and nerfing your defender abilities. Then at 11th level, you can finally take Swordmage Warding and train in Improved Swordmage Warding and......you are not an offensive threat and still need Greater Swordmage Warding.

If you want good damage and max defense you still need a feat for War Axe to keep one hand free.

And then you can only really viably use swordmage melee/weapon attacks and ignore all the implement stuff.

 

[Anthraxus]

And at least now a Barbarian/Cleric is a viable combination.

Wait, I just rolled up a Barbarian with Cleric using the normal multiclass rules. Why isn't it a viable combination? Is there something I'll see in future levels that is sub-par?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Wait, I just rolled up a Barbarian with Cleric using the normal multiclass rules. Why isn't it a viable combination? Is there something I'll see in future levels that is sub-par?

I was thinking back to 3e where it wasn't at all.

And with the 4e multiclassing rules, you didn't have much too gain being a Barbarian multiclassing into Cleric, as you did the other way around.