Edition War Across the Net or Where Have You Been?

[Hereticus]

4.0E is a change from 3.5E... and some people naturally resist change.

But I found that to be false - People mostly resist change they have no control over. I base that on my years of work experience implementing quality systems based on crap good stuff like ISO-9000.

[sarcasm]I know that if WotC had done the right thing and consulted me about my issues of importance, that 4.0E would have been a much better product.[/sarcasm]

My biggest complaint about 4.0E is all the new books that will need to be bought. If I or someone else complains because you can't do X anymore, an edition sage will proudly proclaim that Yes You Can!, it's in the Forgotten Compendium of Martial Control semi-core handbook that just came out. To keep up with the edition sages, I will need to buy a dozen books for three to four years, until 4.5E comes out to fix the problems in 4.0E.

 

[jdrakeh]

My biggest complaint about 4.0E is all the new books that will need to be bought.

Oddly, implementing new rules means needing to buy new rule books. It was true with every older edition of D&D, as well.

 

[Nikosandros]

Oddly enough, some might say, I've found that one of the most inclusive sites for *all* editions of D&D - and its various relatives and offshoots - is. . .

EN World.

I agree, but why do you find it odd?

 

[jdrakeh]

Oddly enough, some might say, I've found that one of the most inclusive sites for *all* editions of D&D - and its various relatives and offshoots - is. . .

EN World.

Yep. Same here. I primarily play and collect older editions of D&D, but ENworld suits me just fine. There's always some discussion of OD&D, B/X, AD&D, 3x, 4e, and the various clones. There's even discussion of non-fantasy, non D&D-derived, games. The fact that most of the aforementioned discussion occurs without the usual histrionics involved elsewhere just makes it that much more sweet.

 

[Nymrohd]

I think that forums that are more restrictive on what edition to play may be prone to uninhibited trolling of the editions they don't support.

 

[Hereticus]

Oddly, implementing new rules means needing to buy new rule books. It was true with every older edition of D&D, as well.

While that is obvious, you are neglecting to consider two things...

1) The rate of new books is greater with 4.0E than in previous editions.

2) 4.0E is a more radical change from 3.5E than in past editions. I could still use books from 2.0E in my 3.5E game with minor tweaking, but not so much with 4.0E.

 

[jdrakeh]

1) The rate of new books is greater with 4.0E than in previous editions.

Actually, so far, I'm pretty sure that fewer rule books have been released for D&D 4e than were released for D&D 3.0 or 3.5 in the first year following the release of the respective systems.

2) 4.0E is a more radical change from 3.5E than in past editions. I could still use books from 2.0E in my 3.5E game with minor tweaking, but not so much with 4.0E.

You're joking right? Hundreds of people were throwing fits online about how incompatible AD&D was with 3.0 at the time of the latter system's release. I'm a little ashamed to admit that I was one of them, but it's true (and, FWIW, all these years later I still think that the mechanical divide between AD&D and D&D 3x is titanic).

 

[Hereticus]

Actually, so far, I'm pretty sure that fewer supplements have been released for D&D 4e than were released for D&D 3.0 or 3.5 in the first year following the release of the respective systems.

There would be a way to figure this out, by looking at release dates. But through the life of 3.5E (to the best of my knowledge) there were on DMG, two Players handbooks, and five or six Monster Manuals.

You're joking right? Hundreds of people were throwing fits online about how incompatible AD&D was with 3.0 at the time of the latter system's release. I'm a little ashamed to admit that I was one of them, but it's true (and, FWIW, all these years later I still think that the mechanical divide between AD&D and D&D 3x is titanic).

Please, I find your tone in this post and your previous one toward me insulting. Let's try to keep this conversation on an adult level, No, I am not joking.

While going from 2.0E to 3.0E may have been the biggest change to date, going from 3.5E to 4.0E, IMVHO, has been a bigger change.

I bought about 15 books for 3.5E, and am up to five with 4.0E. I have six more that I believe I need (at a minimum) in my shopping cart at Amazon.

 

[Nymrohd]

Well I have about every rulebook since AD&D and I am inclined to agree with jdrakeh. Many of the broad rules stayed same between 3E and 4E while few if any did between 2E and 3E. The one thing that AD&D and 3E had in common that 4E does not have is vancian magic and the massive number of spells that one could convert from one system to an other, and though they are a subset of the system one could argue they are by far the greatest part. Still the base rules, like high rolls and high numbers win, feats, the structure of combat and combat options, ability scores all granting similar modifiers; all these are similar if not identical between 3E and 4E while were entirely different between AD&D and 3E.

In short I think that while converting spells from 2E to 3E is certainly easier, converting most anything else is easier now, and the gameplay is also more similar on its core aspects.

 

[Hereticus]

In short I think that while converting spells from 2E to 3E is certainly easier, converting most anything else is easier now, and the gameplay is also more similar on its core aspects.

As someone who played mostly spell casters, I found very little compatibility between 3.5E and 4.0E, including the disappearance of the Cleric as a spell caster. And the spells were mostly the same going from 2.0E to 3.5E (I missed 3.0E).

And even with my Fighter, I found the change from 2.0E to 3.5E to be easy.

I would like to go into more detail on rule changes, please visit this thread and comment in detail.

Significance of Rule Changes in Editions