[Ranger]Twin strike misunstanding ?

[Masure]

Hi,

I'm starting playing D&D with a ranger. As everybody knows, you often want to max your character making the good choice.

Reading the rules, I assumed that twin strike doesn't have the STR bonus to damage (weird cause basic melee has the STR bonus). Reading the forum, everybody says Twin Strike is THE feat to take cause it does a lot damage and chance to hit.

But without the STR bonus on twin strike, damage is only the 1dx per strike which is poor IMO. As I have a +4 STR bonus, I don't understand why I should use Twin Strike when other at will have the bonus. Did I miss something ?

Regards

ps : feel free correcting my spelling/grammar

edit : ok typo on the title and can't edit it

 

[RedBeardJim]

Well, at low levels it's good-to-great because you get to roll twice for a chance to do damage. As you gain levels, what makes it really spectacular is that your Strength bonus gets overshadowed by all the *other* static bonuses you can accumulate from weapon enhancements, feats, etc., which *do* get added to each Twin Strike damage roll.

 

[tiornys]

Here's some mathematical analysis of Twin Strike vs. a basic attack (which the other attacks are if you ignore the movement bonuses)

H = chance to hit
W = weapon damage
A = ability damage
S = other static damage
Q = hunter's quarry damage

A basic attack is easy to calculate. If you hit, you get all of your damage, and if you miss, you get none. So, it comes out to:

H*(W+A+S+Q)

Twin Strike is a bit more complicated. It has the following average damage per attack:

H*(W+S)

And you get to make that attack twice. You also get to add your quarry damage (Q), but you get that at most once per round. So, to add that part of the average damage in, we need to figure out the chance that you hit at least once. The total average damage for Twin Strike comes out as:

2*(H*(W+S)) + (1-(1-H)^2)*(Q)

Let's ignore quarry damage for a moment. That simplifies the equations to:

basic attack vs. Twin Strike
H*(W+A+S) <> 2*(H*(W+S))

A little algebra leads to the following:

A <> W+S

Which tells us that if W+S > A, then Twin Strike will average more damage. You said you had a Str modifier of 4, so if you're using Longswords, which average 4.5 damage per hit, then Twin Strike is better even if you have no other bonuses to damage. Add in something like Weapon Focus or an enhancement bonus, and Twin Strike gains. Adding in your quarry damage also favors Twin Strike, since you're more likely to hit at least once with two attacks.

Now, if you happen to be using different weapons, the W in the final equation is your offhand weapon. If it's a shortsword, say, then right now Twin Strike is slightly worse than a basic attack if you don't have the target quarried (3.5 < 4), but as soon as you get at least 1 point of static damage modifier, that will stop being true (if you have the target quarried, the added chance at the bonus damage also makes Twin Strike better).

That help?

t~

edit: like Blackbrrd, I also ignored criticals, but as he says, criticals favor Twin Strike as well.

 

[Blackbrrd]

A typical dex 20 ranger's basic attack VS AC 18
+7 to hit, 1d10+5(dex)+1(weapon focus) +1d6 (hunters quarry) = 50% of 14 damage or 7 average damage
Twin strike: +7 to hit, 1d10+1 x2 = 6.5x2 = 13 + (hunters quarry, 75% of 3.5 = 2.625) = 15.625.

Twin strike does 15.625/14 = 11% more damage than a basic attack.

(I am disregarding criticals that would make Twin Strike even better as it has 2x the chance to crit.)

 

[Oompa]

Simply said..

The change of hitting twice is great, so you have a possibility to miss, do 1w or 2w damage..

And later.. when you get better weapons and the likes the damage increases..

 

[keterys]

And don't forget twice as many critical hits, too.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The attached spreadsheet helps puts the numbers in perspective and can help you gauge when to use a basic attack, which is almost never. Someone please confirm the probability calculations on the quarry and crits for twin strike. I'm not a statistics major.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And none of this is even factoring in various other potential sources of goodness from being able to hit more often. What happens when you use magic weapons with properties or powers that do extra fun stuff on a hit? There is a very good reason that Twin Strike is pretty close to being inarguably the most potent at-will in the game.

 

[Nifft]

There is a very good reason that Twin Strike is pretty close to being inarguably the most potent at-will in the game.

Yeah, it's right up there with Righteous Brand.

Cheers, -- N

 

[CapnZapp]

Twin Strike doubles the chance of nailing the foe with Hunter's Quarry too...

So in short, don't worry, Twin Strike is one of the best at-wills in the game altogether.