Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[Hunter In Darkness]

Returning to the druid, does anyone know if they changed the Natural Spell feat, or is it still a must have?

Well lini has it listed. So it is there, beyond that no clue. There was enough outcry in the playtesting over wild shap to take it out ...even if it should be

 

[Rolflyn]

Okay so if you know about the new allip it isn't that bad, but what about in random encounters?
It would be exactly the same: who prepares Magic weapon at 1st without prior knowledge that you need it. It only lasts 1 encounter (2 if you run to next some how).

As I said before, the wisdom-drain allip isn't appropriate as a wandering monster, same as the original rust monster. It needs a note "CR 3(see sidebar)".

And my clerics have always run magic weapon because of shadows such, and +1 to hit and +1 damage isn't the worst effect. True, it might be the first thing you pitch for healing. And it is a great spell to have on a scroll at lower levels. But my level 3, you start to run into actual weapons, and the spell goes away quickly.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

As I said before, the wisdom-drain allip isn't appropriate as a wandering monster, same as the original rust monster. It needs a note "CR 3(see sidebar)".

If it's not appropriate for a CR 3 random chart then it is not CR 3

 

[ProfessorCirno]

New Pathfinder Allip is in the crypt of the insane. Party comes up with plan: "Let's all charge in and attack. It can't get us all, and we can use Lesser Restoration to remove the wisdom damage when we have won." Response: "Cool, cast Magic Weapon on this sword."

Congrats! Your fighter and possibly your rogue are now dead. Thanks to your ability to see into the future, no other parties were killed, as you miraculously already had Magic Weapon and Lesser Restoration prepared. You are now two party members down due to you blindly rushing in. Great.

3.5 wisdom drain Allip: Party comes up with plan: "Let's all charge in and attack." Response: "Are you nuts? That's a freaking allip behind there. Unless someone can drop it before it gets to us, I say we go another route." "Agreed."

I'm sorry, but you've given no distinction between this and the previous Allip, except in this case, the party is all made of cowards. Seriously, that's the only change here - party response, the most variable thing in the world! That wasn't my question, you know! I asked how the fight would differ, as not only would many a party blindly charge into the old Allip, but some would find some bizarre technique, such as using a SKELERAAAAAAAM to somehow destroy it before it can be a threat, and another party would neither retreat nor fight it, but instead spend three sessions arguing about if the mage should learn Magic Weapon or if the fighter should buy him a scroll of it.

Now you could use a CR 8 monster with wisdom drain instead of the CR 3 allip, but then the conversation would go:

"There's a monster we cannot defeat in the crypt. We simply cannot go there. The mage and archer couldn't possibly drop it before it got to us and tore us to shreds, draining away all our wisdom. No tactics in fact could possibly defeat it, I guess the DM wants us to go elsewhere."

Sorry, I don't see any difference between this and the previous one. Let's look at it: the previous old allip, the party goes "Oh man, there's no way we can beat that. Let's retreat." However, if we change the Allip and use a CR 8 monster, we have the radically different technique of "Oh man, there's no way we can beat that. Let's retreat."





As for the druid, eh, there's just not a lot off info to go on, quite frankly. The wildshape changes information was kinda vague, so I'll need to wait until I see them in the book itself to get a good grasp on them. Plus, I was never really into druids, which I think is the big issue - people looked at Pathfinder specifically regarding the weaker classes with a "Well, how do you fix this?" look. Druid...didn't really need to be fixed, unless you mean in the animal sort of way (Which would be fitting 'cause it's a druid! HAH HAH! GET IT? IT WILDSHAPES INTO AN ANIMAL? AND WILDSHAPE NEEDS TO BE "FIXED?" GET IT?) Personally, I'm still kinda hung up over the bard, to be honest

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I was good with the bard. Sure he gets less rounds now. Inspire courage was never ment to be an always on every single fight ability. He also got more stuff to do, a better HD and more spells..Oh and he can cast while doing bardic music...that's a win to me. YMMV

The druid did get nerfed a bit no more str 8 druids becomeing str 30 animals or anything.

 

[an_idol_mind]

Wow...there's an awful lot of debate here about something that isn't even part of the core game.

The druid looks cool, though.

 

[Rolflyn]

If it's not appropriate for a CR 3 random chart then it is not CR 3

Interesting. Do you have a reference for this requirement?

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Interesting. Do you have a reference for this requirement?

CR 3 is an avage encounter for a level 3 party
DMG P. 48
A monster’s Challenge Rating (CR) tells you the level of the party for which that monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters. If the characters are of higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should be easier to defeat. Likewise, if the characters are of lower level than a monster’s Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater award.


One page 49 we see this chart

Table 3–2: Encounter Difficulty
% of Total Encounter Description
10% Easy EL lower than party level
20% Easy if handled properly Special (see below)
50% Challenging EL equals that of party
15% Very difficult EL 1–4 higher than party level
5% Overpowering EL 5+ higher than party level

and it explains
*Easy: The PCs win handily with little threat to themselves. The Encounter Level for the encounter is lower than the party level. The group should be able to handle an almost limitless number of these encounters.
*Easy if Handled Properly: There’s a trick to this kind of encounter— a trick the PCs must discover to have a good chance of victory. Find and eliminate the evil cleric with greater invisibility first so she stops bolstering the undead, and everything else about the
encounter becomes much easier. If not handled properly, this kind of encounter becomes challenging or even very difficult.
*Challenging: Most encounters seriously threaten at least one member of the group in some way. These are challenging encounters, about equal in Encounter Level to the party level. The average adventuring group should be able to handle four challenging encounters
before they run low on spells, hit points, and other resources. If an encounter doesn’t cost the PCs some significant portion of their resources, it’s not challenging.
*Very Difficult: One PC might very well die. The Encounter Level is higher than the party level. This sort of encounter may be more dangerous than an overpowering one, because it’s not immediately obvious to the players that the PCs should flee.
*Overpowering: The PCs should run. If they don’t, they will almost certainly lose. The Encounter Level is five or more levels higher than the party level.


So as it is CR3 it should be challenging to a level 3 party..so they should be able to deal with it 3 or 4 times on avage......so if it is a CR3 they should be able to overcome the damage it does to them without a higher level NPC helping them If not it is a higher CR then the group...hince not CR3

with that I am done with the allip thing...most folks think drain is not a 3rd level ability. If you have an issue change it back. Now can we drop the allip thing for the love of the gods

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I was good with the bard. Sure he gets less rounds now. Inspire courage was never ment to be an always on every single fight ability. He also got more stuff to do, a better HD and more spells..Oh and he can cast while doing bardic music...that's a win to me. YMMV

The druid did get nerfed a bit no more str 8 druids becomeing str 30 animals or anything.

I guess my issue with the new bard is that there just doesn't seem to be enough there to make him shine. Granted, it's been mentioned that he gets really good stuff later on, but until I see that, it just looks like a mechanically bad class isn't as bad now. I am glad - very glad - that they got rid of pidgeon holing instruments/perform styles into bard song, but, while I like the IDEA of the whole replace one skill with perform, I don't like that it's tied to a specific type of perform.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I guess my issue with the new bard is that there just doesn't seem to be enough there to make him shine. Granted, it's been mentioned that he gets really good stuff later on, but until I see that, it just looks like a mechanically bad class isn't as bad now. I am glad - very glad - that they got rid of pidgeon holing instruments/perform styles into bard song, but, while I like the IDEA of the whole replace one skill with perform, I don't like that it's tied to a specific type of perform.

I hear ya, I can understand it being tied however as it would get abused and well very odd at times..I take perform cello..I will tie my tumble to it

And well the thing about a bard is her is not any one thing. He is not a full caster..he is not a full melee type..he isnt a rogue..he isnt a healer...What he is however is the middle man, the jack of trades..so he is not the best at anything, but he can fill more then one role if needed. Some will love him, some will hate him, some will go meh whatever. but there he is