J. Tweet's comments on Swords & Wizardry

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

You are aware that there is no probability curve on a 1d anything right?

Neither does 3d6 then. Let's call it "graph".

Different mechanics don't have to be used for any reasons of realism but they may come in handy for modeling certain constructs the way someone wants them to work. This isn't an attempt at realism, rather it's simply a method for designing a tool to do a specific job. A d20 plus modifiers is a useful tool but it might not fit for every single type of task resolution.

Some people might not want to use such a quirky random method of d20 + modifiers for skill based tasks, especially if the difficulty for such tasks scales with level. Does a character really grow and improve if the odds of success at performing a given task remain the same? If the goal is to engineer a task system whereby a player needs to roll a certain raw number to succeed and to keep such odds stable over the levels then d20 + modifiers vs scaling DC's fits the bill.

That, to me, while a workable mechanic does not fit the description of skill as it is commonly defined. If we are to see measurable improvement then actual odds of success should increase steadily as skill improves. IMHO a flat 1d anything roll makes this more difficult to model.

Does it really matter how the characters abilities really grow? I think it does not. The important thing it does grow, and that it grows in a manner that has a an appreciable and desirable effect on the way the game is played. I see that others don't find this sufficient or relevant. I won't compromise for them, and they shouldn't have to compromise for my goals, either.

 

[Mythmere1]

If anyone truly, wholly, absolutely disagrees with JT's comments about the technical side of Swords & Wizardry, you can certainly vote for S&W as best free product. Voting has begun.

(and/or for Mythmere Games as best publisher)

 

[ExploderWizard]

Neither does 3d6 then. Let's call it "graph".

Really? So you are saying that the probability of rolling a 3 or an 18 on a 3d6 is the same as rolling a 10?

Does it really matter how the characters abilities really grow? I think it does not. The important thing it does grow, and that it grows in a manner that has a an appreciable and desirable effect on the way the game is played. I see that others don't find this sufficient or relevant. I won't compromise for them, and they shouldn't have to compromise for my goals, either.

It only matters depending on the play experience desired.

 

[Doug McCrae]

You can pretty much model 2d6 on a d100 if you want. There's a 1 in 36 chance of rolling a 2 so that can be 01-03, 12 is 98-00. There's a 1 in 6 chance of a 7 so that's represented by something like 43-57. (Those values aren't exact but you get the idea.)

With a big enough linear track, any bell curve can be simulated.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Really? So you are saying that the probability of rolling a 3 or an 18 on a 3d6 is the same as rolling a 10?

really. If you look at the possible distrubitions, you will note that the graph will consist of spots denoted for the 16 numbers you can roll. It will not show a curve.

Of course, if you say that you connect those dots with some magical trickery to create a curve - well, then the probability curve of a d20 is just a very flat curve.

 

[HywayWolf]

I would like to point out that I did say "for me" in my post. Your mileage may differ, and it obviously does. I wasn't talking about probabilities; it doesn't matter to me if I roll 2d8 or 3d6 when turning undead. What I was saying is that if I am a cleric I want there to be some difference between me saying "I attack the skeletons" and "I turn the skeletons". For me the difference between rolling 1d20 or 2d6 is sufficient.

 

[Mythmere1]

I would like to point out that I did say "for me" in my post. Your mileage may differ, and it obviously does. I wasn't talking about probabilities; it doesn't matter to me if I roll 2d8 or 3d6 when turning undead. What I was saying is that if I am a cleric I want there to be some difference between me saying "I attack the skeletons" and "I turn the skeletons". For me the difference between rolling 1d20 or 2d6 is sufficient.

That's nicely put!

I usually talk about this using the terms "wonk" (when a game uses different subsystems for various tasks or classes) and "elegance." (when the same system is used for everything). Obviously, I prefer a wonky system because it gives more character to different types of things.

 

[ExploderWizard]

really. If you look at the possible distrubitions, you will note that the graph will consist of spots denoted for the 16 numbers you can roll. It will not show a curve.

Of course, if you say that you connect those dots with some magical trickery to create a curve - well, then the probability curve of a d20 is just a very flat curve.

The probability of a d20 rolling any particular result is 5% This is as flat as a pancake.

http://www.anwu.org/games/dice_calc.html

You can check out the distributions here.

 

[rkwoodard]

V&v

That's nicely put!

I usually talk about this using the terms "wonk" (when a game uses different subsystems for various tasks or classes) and "elegance." (when the same system is used for everything). Obviously, I prefer a wonky system because it gives more character to different types of things.

Hello,

Did you ever play V&V. That system is a haven for Wonk. Each power is its own sub-system, and the defense table is all over the place.

It is by far my favorite supers game.

RK

 

[Harlekin]

The probability of a d20 rolling any particular result is 5% This is as flat as a pancake.

DPC

You can check out the distributions here.

That's pretty much what he said:
In mathematical terms, a flat line is still called a curve, so even if you connect the discrete set of points in this distribution to form something continuous, the resulting graph would be a curve.