Reading some of the posts about campaign settings has caused me to wonder: has there ever been a successful "Realms-shaking-event" in a D&D campaign setting? A setting which underwent a significant change (perhaps between editions) and the change was embraced by the majority of fans?
A successful "Realms-Shaking-Event"?
- Thread starter GSHamster
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arscott
First Post
I assume the war of the Lance doesn't count?
Post-Gygax greyhawk is obviously polarizing, but I seem to remember quite a few folks who liked the Greyhawk wars (or at least, the version of Greyhawk that existed at their conclusion)
Likewise, I've not heard an ill word said about war of the souls, though that seemed like an epic return to status quo.
Post-Gygax greyhawk is obviously polarizing, but I seem to remember quite a few folks who liked the Greyhawk wars (or at least, the version of Greyhawk that existed at their conclusion)
Likewise, I've not heard an ill word said about war of the souls, though that seemed like an epic return to status quo.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Star Wars Yuzang Vong Invasion/New Jedi Order. Oh, wait, that's neither D&D nor generally greeted.
Also not d20, also not always appreciated, as far as I know:
Battletech Clan Invasion.
I suppose that Shadowrun had a few changes that were better received, but I think it still didn't convince everyone. (And still not D&D.)
I am not sure, but it's possible that a D&D or least close-to-D&D setting where a campaign changing event happened might have been well received for the Diamond Throne setting.
The Dragons returned. Nothing has happened "yet" from it, but it introduces new potential for conflict that was lacking. But the change is not all that fundamental - the same players are still there in their old positions, but a new one has entered the scene. It's not the same as killing off major NPCs or gods and destroying entire nations.
Anyone knows how the end of the Torg campaign was recieved. (I think the end leads to the arrival of the Space Gods, and the destruction/death of the Gaunt Man.) In this case, the change is player-created...
I think there is a fundamental issue with this:
The fans liked the setting as it was. Why should they like a big change if that results in a different setting? And if the big change just returns everything to normal, except we now use a different magic system, was it really that great idea? Isn't a retcon better?
Of course, Forgotten Realms had a specific problem - novels were canon for the setting, so if you change the system and that would affect the narrative of the stories, you have to find an explanation to keep canon intact.
Aside from that, I think big changing events might work better if they are built in the setting from the start, and you can play in different timelines.
Also not d20, also not always appreciated, as far as I know:
Battletech Clan Invasion.
I suppose that Shadowrun had a few changes that were better received, but I think it still didn't convince everyone. (And still not D&D.)
I am not sure, but it's possible that a D&D or least close-to-D&D setting where a campaign changing event happened might have been well received for the Diamond Throne setting.
The Dragons returned. Nothing has happened "yet" from it, but it introduces new potential for conflict that was lacking. But the change is not all that fundamental - the same players are still there in their old positions, but a new one has entered the scene. It's not the same as killing off major NPCs or gods and destroying entire nations.
Anyone knows how the end of the Torg campaign was recieved. (I think the end leads to the arrival of the Space Gods, and the destruction/death of the Gaunt Man.) In this case, the change is player-created...
I think there is a fundamental issue with this:
The fans liked the setting as it was. Why should they like a big change if that results in a different setting? And if the big change just returns everything to normal, except we now use a different magic system, was it really that great idea? Isn't a retcon better?
Of course, Forgotten Realms had a specific problem - novels were canon for the setting, so if you change the system and that would affect the narrative of the stories, you have to find an explanation to keep canon intact.
Aside from that, I think big changing events might work better if they are built in the setting from the start, and you can play in different timelines.
Yeah, I wouldn't count War of the Lance, because that's where that setting started.
I was just wondering, if a RSE has never been entirely successful, why do companies insist on doing them? It's easy to come up with many examples of RSE's that were not popular, but hard to come up with ones which were popular.
My guess is that it's an easy way for the company to hit the "reset" button. It's more for the company's convenience, whether it is starting from a clean slate, reviving a setting that has run out of steam, a change in the set of rules, paying less royalties, etc ...
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
I think the reason sometimes is just that the setting does also not work anymore as is. They need a new audience, or at least some reason for the existing audience to buy more books. So even if it allienates or disappoints old fans - if it still creates new fans and people check out the new books (by buying them), it is a worthy endeavour to them.
Another reason might just be because the creators of the settings just want it to move on, because they are tired of the status quo. Maybe they find their original work left something to be desired.
Another reason might just be because the creators of the settings just want it to move on, because they are tired of the status quo. Maybe they find their original work left something to be desired.
You just pointed out two very seperate distinctions here, that I think points us in the right direction. There is a difference between realm-shattering events that aren't successful versus realm-shattering events that aren't popular.
Popularity in large part can be determined by the amount of complaints you notice on message boards like these, and emails the company receives. However, more than likely, many of the people who do this complaining did in fact purchase the setting in the first place. They bought the books, they read the books, they may have even played with the books... and it is what allowed them to determine that they didn't like what occured. But the bigger issue is... WotC still sold the books. So in that regard, the new book was successful in what it was meant to do... get bought and bring in money.
The fact is... people who want to play 4E and want to play in the Forgotten Realms (to choose a setting as an example), will still most likely purchase the two campaign books even if the 100 year jump leaves them cold. The Player's Guide, because it gives all the new rules for the new races, the swordmage, all the Realms-specific paragon and epic classes etc. And the Campaign Guide, because there's just too much other useful information in it, compared with a DM having to do ALL the updating of the 3E book to 4E himself. Sure, a DM could do that (and there probably are a few that do)... but in truth, that is really much more work that most players would want to do. Far easier to just drop the $30 bucks for the book, take from it what he needs, and gripe about the stuff he doesn't like. And in that regard, the book ends up being successful from WotC's point of view. Maybe not popular, but successful.
Arnwyn
First Post
None that I know of.
(While obviously no statistics or studies (!) are available, AFAIK the Time of Troubles was not positively received either. It's still laughed at to this day on FR-centric sites.)
So no, the RSEs aren't 'successful' either.
(While obviously no statistics or studies (!) are available, AFAIK the Time of Troubles was not positively received either. It's still laughed at to this day on FR-centric sites.)
I disagree. It's not the RSEs that are doing that - it's all the other stuff you mention (in most cases, being the only way to get a book for the edition one prefers).DEFCON 1 said:
So no, the RSEs aren't 'successful' either.
Last edited:
kitsune9
Adventurer
I agree with this. Time of Troubles was probably the only earth-shaking event that didn't have fans crying foul.
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