This is why we can't have nice things.

[Deset Gled]

This is far from the first time this has happened, but it's the first time that it's happened when I actually have the time to post a mini-rant about it, so here goes...

I was reading this thread today - http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...s-worst-type-encounter-you-hate-write-up.html - when I was struck by the rancor in posts #3 and #7. This is a thread that started out completely edition-neutral, and within the first 10 posts has two utterly scathing, flame-baiting, edition-war style posts with practically no back up or comments worth discussing. It is worth noting that (most) posts like this are in not bad enough to warrant Moderator intervention, but they are also posts that do practically nothing to further discussion of any topic.

These are the type of comments that have led to the edition war bans, and are what lead people to thinking that ENWorld is a hostile, unhappy place. It's well veiled thread crapping; it's hatred seething out in a socially acceptable manner. Posts like this are not limited to one side or the other, and they come from both newbies and members that have been here for years.

I would also like to pat kitsune9 on the back for post 14, where (s)he takes what started as mindlessness, and built on it with a good story, a good examples, a mild tone, and a sense of humor. This type of post is what first made me love ENWorld, and what makes me keep coming back (despite the fact that I game pathetically little these days).

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is that the next time we have to put up with a ban on edition wars, or have to actively discuss how to moderate and sort this type of thing in the Meta forum, realize that it's not the big threads with multiple bans that are the problem; the real problem is all the little snark that infiltrates every corner to the community. Start paying closer attention to the one liner posts like this that infiltrate otherwise neutral threads. Try not to make them, and try not to let them kindle the flames of a larger problem.

/soap box

 

[Morrus]

Please report the problematic posts. If they're not reported, we won't see them. We can't possibly read 'em all!

 

[kitsune9]

This is far from the first time this has happened, but it's the first time that it's happened when I actually have the time to post a mini-rant about it, so here goes...

I was reading this thread today - http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...s-worst-type-encounter-you-hate-write-up.html - when I was struck by the rancor in posts #3 and #7. This is a thread that started out completely edition-neutral, and within the first 10 posts has two utterly scathing, flame-baiting, edition-war style posts with practically no back up or comments worth discussing. It is worth noting that (most) posts like this are in not bad enough to warrant Moderator intervention, but they are also posts that do practically nothing to further discussion of any topic.

These are the type of comments that have led to the edition war bans, and are what lead people to thinking that ENWorld is a hostile, unhappy place. It's well veiled thread crapping; it's hatred seething out in a socially acceptable manner. Posts like this are not limited to one side or the other, and they come from both newbies and members that have been here for years.

I would also like to pat kitsune9 on the back for post 14, where (s)he takes what started as mindlessness, and built on it with a good story, a good examples, a mild tone, and a sense of humor. This type of post is what first made me love ENWorld, and what makes me keep coming back (despite the fact that I game pathetically little these days).

So I guess what I'm trying to say here is that the next time we have to put up with a ban on edition wars, or have to actively discuss how to moderate and sort this type of thing in the Meta forum, realize that it's not the big threads with multiple bans that are the problem; the real problem is all the little snark that infiltrates every corner to the community. Start paying closer attention to the one liner posts like this that infiltrate otherwise neutral threads. Try not to make them, and try not to let them kindle the flames of a larger problem.

/soap box

Thanks Deset! I try to make my threads as edition neutral in the General forum and certainly in agreeance with you in that I don't like edition wars. Even though I play only one particular kind of game, I think I can learn from the experiences of the other gamers who play everything else and find ways that will make my gaming experience better.

Happy Gaming!

 

[Umbran]

I was reading this thread today - http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...s-worst-type-encounter-you-hate-write-up.html - when I was struck by the rancor in posts #3 and #7.

I am sorry, but I disagree with you.

To my reading, those posts both thoroughly lack the rancor that marks edition war posts. They are simple statements of personal opinion. They do not go beyond that in scope. Most importantly, they don't insult others for their preferences, or for anything else. They are phrased briefly, but not rudely.

It looks like honest critique and opinion to me. Statting up high-level encounters for 3e is a bear. Sometimes bear-and-a-half. There's nothing wrong with not liking that, and saying as much.

If we get to the point where any statement of, "I don't like this" is considered an edition war, the boards will simply be non-functional.

 

[jaerdaph]

I think oversensitivity to anything anyone says that's critical of someone else's preferred system is becoming a bigger problem.

Not every criticism is snark or meant to start an edition war. Not everyone is going to share your tastes, preferences or experience. If you don't like something or don't agree with something, move on.

I also believe if our nerd rage could be harnessed and directed at something meaningful, we'd probably have cures for AIDS and cancer by now.

 

[kitsune9]

I think oversensitivity to anything anyone says that's critical of someone else's preferred system is becoming a bigger problem.

Not every criticism is snark or meant to start an edition war. Not everyone is going to share your tastes, preferences or experience. If you don't like something or don't agree with something, move on.

I also believe if our nerd rage could be harnessed and directed at something meaningful, we'd probably have cures for AIDS and cancer by now.

This reminds me of some old addage that goes like, "Our own worst enemies is ourselves." Something like that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
-from the comic strip Pogo, by Walt Kelly

 

[jdrakeh]

I think oversensitivity to anything anyone says that's critical of someone else's preferred system is becoming a bigger problem.

This.

 

[Umbran]

I think oversensitivity to anything anyone says that's critical of someone else's preferred system is becoming a bigger problem.

Oversensitivity is a problem, occasionally. But people being jerks is still the larger issue.

I think we are starting to see claims of oversensitivity as an excuse for being a jerk. "You should have a thicker skin" is not an excuse. If you truly did not mean offense, offer an apology, and move on.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I am sorry, but I disagree with you.

To my reading, those posts both thoroughly lack the rancor that marks edition war posts. They are simple statements of personal opinion. They do not go beyond that in scope. Most importantly, they don't insult others for their preferences, or for anything else. They are phrased briefly, but not rudely.

It looks like honest critique and opinion to me. Statting up high-level encounters for 3e is a bear. Sometimes bear-and-a-half. There's nothing wrong with not liking that, and saying as much.

If we get to the point where any statement of, "I don't like this" is considered an edition war, the boards will simply be non-functional.

As poster number 3 in that thread I would like to thank you, Umbran, for seeing it for what it was. I thought a while about how to word it so as to not sound like a yet another edition warrior. To hear someone describe that post as 'utterly scathing, flame-baiting, edition-war style' surprised the hell out of me. It was an honest answer that, if responded to, I planned to flesh out.