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[ExploderWizard]

Because this is a site devoted to roleplaying games, you can't avoid making a value judgement, a negative one, if you say that something generally held to be an rpg isn't.

So why cant the site expand to coverage of other games if they are gaining in popularity? I'm cool with that and wouldn't object to such games getting coverage. The only thing I see in a negative way is a game that uses RPG as a buzz acronym to generate interest and sales when the play of the game doesn't fit that distinction.

 

[LostSoul]

Not really. If the players sit down with the expectation of playing a story based game there is no railroad happening. Everyone knows and expects a very plot driven game. I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

I think there are two ways to play a storytelling game. One is to have the DM tell the story to the passive players, who go along with his plot because they want to hear the story.

The other is to create characters and a setting, throw it into motion and see what shakes out. Once Upon a Time is kind of like this.

I could point to something like Prime Time Adventures as an example of the second type, but I don't think it's a storytelling game (using EW's definition).

 

[Fifth Element]

D&D is billed as the premiere roleplaying game. If that is no longer going to be true, and the brand is changing into a storytelling game then the developers/marketers should just man up and say so.

There's nothing to "man up" to. The definition of RPG they're using is the same as most people use it. You have an idiosycratic definition of RPG, which most people would reject (I suspect), and then you suggest those who don't share your very narrow definition need to "man up" rather than you realizing they're using a different, more common, definition.

 

[Fifth Element]

So why cant the site expand to coverage of other games if they are gaining in popularity?

The site already does cover those games. You see an issue because of your very narrow definition of "RPG". To the majority on this site, there is no need to "expand" the coverage as you suggest, because those games already fit within the defnition of "RPG".

 

[Campbell]

Having seen this conversation play out multiple times one of the issues I see that rarely gets acknewledged is that the distinction between story games* and roleplaying games is rarely a binary state. Story games grew out of the roleplaying hobby and maintain a number of features of roleplaying games, including identification with an in game avatar for the most part. There are also a number of games that are much closer to the roleplaying end of the spectrum that nonetheless implement minor callobarative storytelling based mechanics. That's all without getting into the ways that pure roleplaying games can be played in a manner that incorporates callaborative storytelling.

*When I speak of story games, I'm mostly referring to games that utilize shared narrative control to resolve conflicts that arise between players - not a certain class of storytelling games which are basically standard roleplaying games with a different set of play assumptions.

 

[ExploderWizard]

There's nothing to "man up" to. The definition of RPG they're using is the same as most people use it. You have an idiosycratic definition of RPG, which most people would reject (I suspect), and then you suggest those who don't share your very narrow definition need to "man up" rather than you realizing they're using a different, more common, definition.

It isn't my fault if gamers see storytelling as a dirty word. It shouldn't be.

The primary goal of a wargame is to fight, thus a wargame.
The primary goal of a roleplaying game is to roleplay, thus a roleplaying game.
The primary goal of a storytelling game is to create/tell stories.

The ultimate goal of all of them is to have fun and all of them can provide that.

As far as a "narrow view" goes, is it shortsighted to expect a wargame to provide combat as the main focus of play? You can roleplay during a wargame but you wouldn't fault the game for not providing support for it.

Likewise, you can roleplay during a storytelling game but the design shouldn't be faulted for not having that as a main focus.

The question I would like answered is why would someone who really enjoys playing storytelling games would hate them being called storytelling games?

 

[coyote6]

I don't think it has anything to do with anyone seeing storytelling as a dirty word; it has to do with your definitions not matching everyone else's.

 

[GrimGent]

*When I speak of story games, I'm mostly referring to games that utilize shared narrative control to resolve conflicts that arise between players - not a certain class of storytelling games which are basically standard roleplaying games with a different set of play assumptions.

In other words, calling The World of Darkness by White Wolf anything other than a traditional RPG simply because the game runs on what's known as "The Storytelling System" would be patently absurd.

 

[Barastrondo]

In other words, calling The World of Darkness by White Wolf anything other than a traditional RPG simply because the game runs on what's known as "The Storytelling System" would be patently absurd.

Well, we do use some narrative conceits like mechanics that last for the duration of "a scene" and the like. It's a little more than just a name — but you're absolutely right, even with those narrative conceits built into the system, the Storytelling System games and the Storyteller games before them are absolutely traditional RPGs. Have been for over 15 years. There are even Storyteller grognards!

That's why the standard definition of traditional roleplaying is so encompassing. Gaming is a big tradition, much bigger than any one game table's idiosyncratic preferences.

 

[Belorin]

It isn't my fault if gamers see storytelling as a dirty word. It shouldn't be.

The primary goal of a wargame is to fight, thus a wargame.
The primary goal of a roleplaying game is to roleplay, thus a roleplaying game.
The primary goal of a storytelling game is to create/tell stories.

The ultimate goal of all of them is to have fun and all of them can provide that.

As far as a "narrow view" goes, is it shortsighted to expect a wargame to provide combat as the main focus of play? You can roleplay during a wargame but you wouldn't fault the game for not providing support for it.

Likewise, you can roleplay during a storytelling game but the design shouldn't be faulted for not having that as a main focus.

The question I would like answered is why would someone who really enjoys playing storytelling games would hate them being called storytelling games?

I use both roleplaying and storytelling in my games, the storytelling is my part and the players roleplay.

Bel