Eberron Conversion Questions

[Shazman]

Where is the database? Is it on the Paizo forums?

 

[freyar]

Where is the database? Is it on the Paizo forums?

Here you go.

 

[Qualidar]

I was working on the Artificer myself the other day (and of course it's at home, so I don't have it in front of me. ). Basically, I bumped the HD up to d8 and shuffled the order the craft feats came in (Forge Ring is available at 7th level in Pathfinder, and there are other less extreme adjustments as well). I was pretty happy with the feat order, spreading it out over the first 12 or 13 levels. After that it's empty at the moment with the exception of the bonus feats.

On one hand, that doesn't completely bother me, as the Eberron campaigns I have in mind will all end before or right around there. On the other hand, I'd like to flush it out for my inner completist. Does anyone have any ideas what would be useful for higher level Artificers? I'll take a look and see what Doug Anderson's Northern Crown gave to the Natural Philosopher class at high levels, as that might be a good match.

Another issue is the Craft Reserve. As the XP component for crafting magic items goes away, this needs adjustment. I was thinking of just converting the XP reserve to a gp reserve worth 5x the current XP value, but it looks a little....underwhelming. Needs more thought. Perhaps a 10% reduction in cost every 4 levels?

3.5 artificers are pretty much broken. A 3.5 artificer with one or more warforged in the party is pretty much game-breaking in my experience.

Shazam, would you expand on that a bit? I'm curious what the problems you saw were.

I've been thinking about this a little myself. I would use the spell table of the Bard for the Artificer starting with 1st level infusions = 0 level spells. I think most of the 3.5 Eberron rules will transfer over easily. Basically, low at the base stats and bonuses for the Bard as a guide and I think you'll be okay.

Collin, why do you think the Bard spell progression is better?

One question I have: if a super 20th level special ability were added to this class, what should it be?

I'm not entirely sure it's necessary. The Cleric and Wizard don't get one.

 

[Shazman]

Stone construct as a 3rd level infusion is one example. Put it on a warforged, and they are practically impervious to physical damage for the whole combat. Their ability to use metamagic feats spontaneously when using charged magic items is also prone to abuse. A relatively low level artificer with empower or maximise feats that gets his hands on a wand of scroching ray, for example, can nuke just about anything he will encounter that isn't immune to fire. They can pretty much outwizard a wizard, and get trapfinding, plus a medium BAB to boot. They can also make magic items cheaper and quicker than the standard guidelines, so they can trick out a whole party with gear much better than they should have at any given level. I would give a Pathfinder artificer the poor BAB/hit dice of a wizard, to nerf them a bit.

 

[Qualidar]

Stone construct as a 3rd level infusion is one example. Put it on a warforged, and they are practically impervious to physical damage for the whole combat.

That one doesn't bother me too much. It's really just Stoneskin limited to Warforged, and given the infusion time it's mostly only going to be used in combats where there's a chance to prep.

Their ability to use metamagic feats spontaneously when using charged magic items is also prone to abuse. A relatively low level artificer with empower or maximise feats that gets his hands on a wand of scroching ray, for example, can nuke just about anything he will encounter that isn't immune to fire.

That's more troublesome. For a while I let my players use an Action Point to emulate a feat, and Maximized attacks really let them walk all over me.

They can pretty much outwizard a wizard, and get trapfinding, plus a medium BAB to boot. They can also make magic items cheaper and quicker than the standard guidelines, so they can trick out a whole party with gear much better than they should have at any given level. I would give a Pathfinder artificer the poor BAB/hit dice of a wizard, to nerf them a bit.

I'm not sure I agree that makes them unbalanced. A wizard is going to be far more effective in any situation that doesn't involve elaborate prep time, and despite the BAB they're never going to be real effective (non-spell) combatants.

 

[Anguish]

Another issue is the Craft Reserve. As the XP component for crafting magic items goes away, this needs adjustment. I was thinking of just converting the XP reserve to a gp reserve worth 5x the current XP value, but it looks a little....underwhelming. Needs more thought. Perhaps a 10% reduction in cost every 4 levels?

Time.

Let the artificer have a pool of time that he can burn when crafting stuff. As you get into more and more expensive items the time involved with crafting them becomes potentially impactful.

30,000gp item? Sure, you can craft the snot out of that item if you care to pause the campaign for a month. Maybe that's possible. Maybe the artificer can just not go out adventuring and looking for trouble for a month. Maybe not.

In a campaign where there's a Big Picture (such as in an Adventure Path for instance), the player may feel self-imposed pressure to get things done ASAP. Saving the world isn't something you dawdle at.

So. What if you could reduce crafting time by X days per level and no individual item can be crafted in less than one day? Make X something like twice your artificer level. So at 10th level you can shave 20 days off crafting in general. That 30,000gp item now can get done in a little over a week. If you're churning out lower-price items like wands and whatnot, you might be able to pull a bunch of them off in a handful of days. Further, if you're out and about you might be able to pull off a 20,000gp item without stopping your dungeon-crawl or whatever you're doing.

Final related thought would be: maybe give artificers the ability to craft potions quicker than anyone else. It's silly to think a 10th level artificer would still need a day to pull of a single potion of cure light wounds. They should be able to brew a bunch at once.

 

[collin]

I uploaded the Artificer to the PF database and then made a few changes.

I changed the infusions/day advancement from the other classes. I think the Bard's and Sorceror's advancement in terms of level of spells/infusions that could be cast per level was way too slow in the final PF rules, but I thought a Wizard's or Cleric's advancement would be too quick (especially for having such a small pool of infusions to begin witH) so for game balance I created an advancement chart that is unique to artificers. I don't see this as a problem since artificers are already a little different than other magic users from the get-go.

I had forgotten about the XP rule being dropped for magic craft item creation, so to compensate, I of course eliminated the craft points for artificers but created 3 new feats which would be automatically granted to the artificer: Reduced Materials, Improved Reduced Materials, and Greater Reduced Materials. The materials refers to the cost (gold pieces) needed in order to have all of the materials necessary to produce a magic item. These feats allow the user (anyone with a prerequisite of an item creation feat) to create magic items cheaper and faster than the standard 8 hours/item.

I flipped back and forth on the hit die, but finally decided to make it a d8 considering it fit the PF rules more with having the medium BAB of a cleric as opposed to a wizard.

I also gave the character a few more weapon choices. Nothing too drastic (again, for game balance) but at least they can gain a little more umpf if they run out of infused items and get into a melee fight.

As it stands, I agree having a super-duper level 20 ability is not necessary, however for this class I think it would be worth it if someone can come up with something that makes sense.

 

[Grymar]

Shazman, that's all true, but there is a cost. Literally. Blowing two or four charges a shot on that wand of Scorching Ray gets very expensive, very quickly. That wand costs 11,250gp new, so that's normally 225gp a shot. Maximizing that costs an additional 3 charges, right? So each shot is 1100gp. Pretty pricey. Sure, they can do it once in a blue moon, but it isn't exactly a reliable tactic at that cost.

 

[collin]

What do you think of this as a 20th level special ability for artificers?

Remove Magic (Sp): At 20th level, the artificer gains a spell-like ability to remove magic from any magical device or object. Like the spell Dispel Magic for a Targeted Dispel, this ability will instantaneously remove magical properties from a device or object imbued with magic. The artificer must be able to touch the object for 1 round to remove a single spell. Further spells may be removed at 1 spell per round. This ability will not function on a creature living, dead, or undead. Remove Magic will work on constructs and related creatures, such as warforged. A dispel or remove check is not required to successfully remove magical properties from an object. If the object is animated, such as a construct, the artificer will need to make a touch attack versus the device’s CMD. Magic items wielded by opponents in combat or against animated constructs will invoke an attack of opportunity against the artificer attempting to touch the desired magical object or device.

 

[Qualidar]

Time. (and a lot more)

I like that a lot. I'm a bit worried about making crafting too cheep, and this really addresses that. A new worry: without some mechanic to balance out all the crafting they do (a la Craft Pool), are we nerfing them too much? Perhaps an approach that blends the 2: a certain amount of discount spread over the levels, alternating with a time savings spread out over the levels

I changed the infusions/day advancement from the other classes...

Why are you not just keeping the current one?

....created 3 new feats which would be automatically granted to the artificer: Reduced Materials, Improved Reduced Materials, and Greater Reduced Materials.

I like what you're doing, but I think it's far too much. You'll have characters swimming in magic items.

What do you think of this as a 20th level special ability for artificers?

Remove Magic (Sp): At 20th level, the artificer gains a spell-like ability to remove magic from any magical device or object. Like the spell Dispel Magic for a Targeted Dispel, this ability will instantaneously remove magical properties from a device or object imbued with magic. The artificer must be able to touch the object for 1 round to remove a single spell. Further spells may be removed at 1 spell per round. This ability will not function on a creature living, dead, or undead. Remove Magic will work on constructs and related creatures, such as warforged. A dispel or remove check is not required to successfully remove magical properties from an object. If the object is animated, such as a construct, the artificer will need to make a touch attack versus the device’s CMD. Magic items wielded by opponents in combat or against animated constructs will invoke an attack of opportunity against the artificer attempting to touch the desired magical object or device.

I think it could work, but I'd get rid of it working on Warforged. That's instant death to a character with a touch attack, no save.

Also, does spell resistance apply?

As a possible alternate, what if Artificers gained the ability to Greater Dispel by touch, at will? Or Mage's Disjunction by touch 3/day (or whatever)?