attacking without attacking

[Flipguarder]

swordmage wants to use an encounter attack power that says he hits a guy and then teleports. The problem is, there is nobody to attack. Teleport is in the effect description. He has a higher level encounter utility that teleports him fewer squares than this power and I ask you. Was I that insane for not allowing this to happen?

 

[sfedi]

DMG, page 40, Legitimate Targets.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

You're not insane. I probably would have made the same call. I'm curious though what the exact powers in question are.

 

[fba827]

I would have made the same call as you did (for whatever my opinion is worth.. but this is the Internet, darn it, therefore my opinion, just like everyone else's, is the supreme one opinion that matters the most)

from a rule's perspective, the DMG reference given above is the reason. a target needs to be a legit target.

From a flavor perspective, i mentally justify it as the arcane power you would have unleashed during the attack is what would have opened the portal for you to step through. or whatever...

 

[renau1g]

You could allow him to target himself with the power, make sure he hits and then *bamf* he goes. There's a cost to it that way.

Although, for the most part you were right. Same reason why a warlock can't keep a bag of rats at his side, curse them all and then snap their necks to get his pact boon. It'd just be silly. (although we joked that for minions we should do non-lethal dmg and keep them as his prisoners, until he needed them)

 

[1of3]

If the teleport is an Effect (i.e. not part of the Hit section), there is no problem at all. He can swing his sword against the empty air.

DMG 40 legitimate targets does not talk about situations like these at all, but common sense helps a lot. It doesn't matter whether the character hits or misses. It's an effect. It is therefore seperate from the attack part.

 

[DracoSuave]

If the teleport is an Effect (i.e. not part of the Hit section), there is no problem at all. He can swing his sword against the empty air.

DMG 40 legitimate targets does not talk about situations like these at all, but common sense helps a lot. It doesn't matter whether the character hits or misses. It's an effect. It is therefore seperate from the attack part.

Except for the power needs a target deal in order to operate... and 'the air' is not a creature, so it can be ruled out as a target by the DM.

 

[ZzarkLinux]

I disagree with the rulings above.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with using it even outside of combat / etc...

So the Swordmage has an encounter attack power that lets him teleport. Big deal.
Lots of people can already teleport.

And don't give me the "Common Sense" mumbo jumbo.
This is a fantasy world, and I don't believe in "Common Sense" anyway.

If you want to fix it, I'd use a houserule. Something where:
The swordmage is not high-enough level to "control" the teleportation from this attack power.
Perhaps at level XYZ he can use it to teleport freely.

and 'the air' is not a creature

Yes but he could be targeting an "invisible creature"...

 

[DracoSuave]

Yes but he could be targeting an "invisible creature"...

Sophistry, and the DM can easily call BS on that.

It's the DMs call, and if the DM doesn't like it, he has every reason to deny it. If the DM decides the magic needs some mystical connection to the target in order to shunt through the feywild and attack at the same time, then that's what the DM decides. RAW, the DM has every justification to make that call.

If he decides the allow the player to do that, that is fine to, but the DM makes the decision, not the player's ability to rationalize or 'game' his desired effect.

And you're right, there -are- many ways to teleport around the field; maybe he should be using one of those to accomplish this task, if the DM decides he needs a target to attack.

 

[sfedi]

And don't give me the "Common Sense" mumbo jumbo.
This is a fantasy world, and I don't believe in "Common Sense" anyway.

You can do whatever you want, of course.
But if you allow that sort of things you'll quickly find yourself in the most unbalanced game ever created.

For example, Hellish Rebuke could become the best at will accross the game, dealing 2d6+(2xCon) at the cost of 1 HP self inflicted by the Warlock casting it.
Plus Curse damage, of course.