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Wizards in 4E have been 'neutered' argument...

Thats unfortunate, but could be more the fault of selfish gameplay, poor RP, and absentee DMing than a problem thats intrinsic in the system.

There were mechanics which encouraged the phenomena and especially at high levels ... Overly potent and adaptable illusion, wish or self transformation magics were basically good bye team work wating in the wings...(and from what I hear in 3e... the save or die effects became way too reliable with similar implications since only a small selection of characters could reap the bounty)

Perhaps the dm could have avoided allowing pass wall and knock and some of the other role stealing magics or they could have been given a disadvantage like costing real money and taking a bit more time.
 

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And this is a problem why?

Its a problem for me because there are few situations where more than ten minutes of lead time is available.

All games are different, I know, but while that lead time might be available to some groups, it doesn't seem to apply to ours. I'm the only guy in our game to cast any rituals, and only Silence as we prepared camp--every other situation seems to warrant a fast response.

There also haven't been many opportunities to learn more (and perhaps more useful) rituals, either. I think I have the same few I started with at 1st level.
 

Weird...I find that rituals are used and abused in my campaigns a lot more.

I think this might be because it is seen as a team endeavour so EVERYONE is looking over the ritual list and thus, the guy playing the rogue guy is just as likely to say, "We could use the Share Husk ritual to scout out the encampment"
(actual example that our DM didn't see coming) even though he has no skill in the Nature skill itself.
 

Can you see why players who enjoyed the imaginitive (and not necessarily super powerful I beat everyone at their own game) style wizard get a little unenthusiastic about popping off minions, shifting combatants around and imposing some easily removed condition on enemies?
Honestly? No, I can't see why. Being a good Wizard in 4e requires the imaginative use of the character's spells in order to be effective. If a player isn't doing anything with his Wizard spells other than popping the occasional minion, his problem is that he's not using his imagination enough. I think, as others have pointed out, the real problem isn't that a player can't make imaginative use of spells in 4e, but that the reward for doing so is an increase in the overall combat effectiveness of the entire group rather than a spotlight hogging moment of utter arcane carnage for the individual player.

In 4e, a Wizard using his spells in the right place, at the right time and in a creative manner can make a huge difference in how long a fight lasts and how many limited resources (daily powers, healing surges, action points) the party spends to overcome the challenge. The only thing it cannot do is end the fight in some kind of boring, anti-climactic *fwoosh* that's entertaining and gratifying for the Wizard character's player alone.

There also haven't been many opportunities to learn more (and perhaps more useful) rituals, either. I think I have the same few I started with at 1st level.
What level are you? Remember, you get to automatically add two new rituals to your spellbook at 5th, 11th, 15th, 21st and 25th level. This is one of the Wizard's major advantages over other classes when it comes to rituals.
 
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Ahh...just having fun with words.
Sorry for some reason I interpreted it in the non-self conflicting ...non sarcastic way... that ignored the issue of the king being so mighty he had to loose a peg or two even if others were uplifted. With the dichotomy firmly in place... it makes perfect sense.
 

I don't think wizards have been 'neutered' exactly. Wizards don't feel like wizards in 4E because the wizard no longer stands out as a worker of magic in a partially mundane world. All adventurers are superheroes hanging around at the Hall of Justice and the wizard just happens to be the one with the robe and pointy hat costume. The default world operates more on the supers comic genre tropes than swords and sorcery and that is why the wizard feels so un-wizard like.

Wizards no longer function as mysterious masters of arcane magic. They have become a flavor for controlling superpowers that can be duplicated by other means. Anything that becomes so widespread and common cannot be all that magical.

If we were to take a 4E wizard and drop him in a 1E world then he would still feel like a wizard because there would be actual non-magic using adventurers to compare him to.

When everyone is a wizard then, effectively; no one is.
 

Sorry for some reason I interpreted it in the non-self conflicting ...non sarcastic way... that ignored the issue of the king being so mighty he had to loose a peg or two even if others were uplifted. With the dichotomy firmly in place... it makes perfect sense.

No, you read it right...I just meant that I wanted to use that alternative spelling out of fun.
 

I don't think wizards have been 'neutered' exactly. Wizards don't feel like wizards in 4E because the wizard no longer stands out as a worker of magic in a partially mundane world.

When everyone is a wizard then, effectively; no one is.
That is a villains quote you realize ;p

The archer ranger is robinhood and william tell doing things that are astonishing. The paladin murmurs over his blade and flares to light with power streaming in from the astral sea. Poets priests and politicians inspire the heroic to push beyond all natural limits. Warriors tap in to heroic luck that seems unending. Barbarians channel spirits and the might of the earth goddess into awesome rages(check out ancient celt barbarians).
The wizards powers still sweep the chaff before him ... but the chaff no longer seems to include his peers... is that bad?
 
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