4e Annoyances for those who like 4e

[UngeheuerLich]

Don´t know about magic items. I believe they are still cool. It is just not worth looking around to find the best you can get. And this is a big + for me.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Don´t know about magic items. I believe they are still cool. It is just not worth looking around to find the best you can get. And this is a big + for me.

Could you possibly expand on this? This is an interesting opinion as it is the exact opposite of my own. To make something not worth looking up or not wanting the player to explore further, or to have them imagine and wonder about seems the opposite of what I would like a game to give me. I thrive on this richness of information.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Joshua Randall]

Is there?

Actually, who knows? I don't have any more insight the mass of players out there than you do.

(Edit: Or were you talking about the overall profusion of hyper-specific magic items, as opposed to hyper-specific magic items with daily powers?)

The former.

Let me put it this way: when I was younger, I used to spend my evenings reading the (1e) DMG, marveling at all the items. I don't do that with the (4e) AV.

I don't necessarily think this is an edition thing. I think it is a combination of me being older, and having different tastes that I used to.

I'm sure there's a 2009 version of the 12-year-old me who reads the AV at night just like I used to read the DMG at night. And that kid would be very disappointed if 4e did not have a plethora of magic items.

Personally I find the huge number of ultra-specific 4e items to be overwhelming and boring. But I'm under no illusion that my personal tastes can or should control the direction of the game.

 

[delericho]

Let me put it this way: when I was younger, I used to spend my evenings reading the (1e) DMG, marveling at all the items. I don't do that with the (4e) AV.

Personally I find the huge number of ultra-specific 4e items to be overwhelming and boring. But I'm under no illusion that my personal tastes can or should control the direction of the game.

I wonder if perhaps in 4e artifacts now play a large part of the role that magic items did in 1st Edition, and 4e magic items are essentially "equipment writ large"?

(If so, this would be a development/refinement of the paradigm shift introduced with 3e, in which the sale and purchase of magic items essentially became the default assumption.)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I wonder if perhaps in 4e artifacts now play a large part of the role that magic items did in 1st Edition, and 4e magic items are essentially "equipment writ large"?

(If so, this would be a development/refinement of the paradigm shift introduced with 3e, in which the sale and purchase of magic items essentially became the default assumption.)

Artifacts seem still pretty rare in 4E, I don't know how that measures up to OD&D/AD&D magic items. But I agree that the way they work certainly is a lot more interesting and makes them feel like "true" magic items. The other items typically feel very weak, more "utility" type of items.

If it was me, I'd probably use the template for artifacts to create a system for magic items that's a little more interesting. But I'd also remove the +X item reliance - maby by making items grow this value automatically with the PC's level. I think it would be cool if every character wouldn't really need more than 1 or 2 magic items, but these come with an array of interesting and thematic powers - like the artifacts do.

 

[Nebulous]

Artifacts seem still pretty rare in 4E, I don't know how that measures up to OD&D/AD&D magic items. But I agree that the way they work certainly is a lot more interesting and makes them feel like "true" magic items. The other items typically feel very weak, more "utility" type of items.

If it was me, I'd probably use the template for artifacts to create a system for magic items that's a little more interesting. But I'd also remove the +X item reliance - maby by making items grow this value automatically with the PC's level. I think it would be cool if every character wouldn't really need more than 1 or 2 magic items, but these come with an array of interesting and thematic powers - like the artifacts do.

I'm thinking about greatly reducing the output of "normal" magic items and replacing them with artifacts. My players usually forget about magic items anyway unless the character builder adds in a +1 or +2 for a weapon or implement. Daily powers fall by the wayside and are completely overshadowed by class powers. Which was a 4e design goal, but i think they went too far.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Daily powers fall by the wayside and are completely overshadowed by class powers. Which was a 4e design goal

It's interesting that such a design goal seems to be at odds with another goal, "sell lots of books full of magic items".

It might be frustrating to be a WotC developer (or designer, I never can keep them straight) these days:

"OK, Fred, we need a 200 page book of magic items by Monday. Oh, and remember that the item powers can't overshadow the PC's class-based powers. Good luck!"

 

[Shazman]

My main gripes.
1) The grind. It is real, and it is ugly.
2) You pretty much have to start with an 18 in your prime stat plus an expertise feat to be effective
3) Hit points are everything but physical health but not really. Hit points in 4E are apparently everything but physical toughness/health, but you are stll dying when you reach 0 hit points. These are completely contradictory points of view. What's even more ridiculous is that a warlord can non-magically inspire you out of the dying condition, even though you are unconscious and can't even hear his inspiring words. Damage and healing in 4E make no sense at all.

 

[Dausuul]

Let me put it this way: when I was younger, I used to spend my evenings reading the (1e) DMG, marveling at all the items. I don't do that with the (4e) AV.

I don't necessarily think this is an edition thing. I think it is a combination of me being older, and having different tastes that I used to.

I'm sure there's a 2009 version of the 12-year-old me who reads the AV at night just like I used to read the DMG at night. And that kid would be very disappointed if 4e did not have a plethora of magic items.

Hmm. Maybe. I dunno. I can't imagine enjoying browsing the Adventurer's Vault, even as a kid, because what is there to browse? It's a bunch of statblocks. Some of the wondrous items are cool, but the rest... it's all mechanics and numbers.

Most 4E books are the same, really. That's not to say they aren't good. The game plays very well, but it reads like a textbook.

 

[hero4hire]

<snip>
What's even more ridiculous is that a warlord can non-magically inspire you out of the dying condition, even though you are unconscious and can't even hear his inspiring words.

This I see all the time in movies. The whole "Don't you die on me!" then miraculously the person starts coughing and comes back to life.