Ki Focus Question

[Flipguarder]

The DDI builder says that you can use a weapon as a ki focus but that "The weapon's characteristics, proficiency bonus, damage die, and weapon properties like defensive or high crit - are irrelevant to your implement powers."

Now it may just be that the feats and items in question all are clear enough to balance this, but can you say use a subtle weapon to gain extra damage on all attacks or hold use a farslayer weapon and use its at will. And if one, but not the other, is it just understood that all monks get that type of weapon and use it as its ki focus?


And if not either, how can I explain to my character why this guy over here can use this items power, but you cannot?

 

[Zaran]

What does subtile do?

I think the issue is that Monks do not do W damage with their powers. So if they use a weapon as an implement they are just using the enhancement bonus for their implement attacks. I don't think this is any different than other classes with implement powers. A cleric can't use his thunder hammer's daily when he uses Lance of Faith.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Note that it mentions "weapon characteristics". It doesn't talk about magical properties of the weapon.

 

[Flipguarder]

subtle gives you extra damage = to your dex while you have combat advantage.

Anyone have a more definite answer? It seems like an important question.

 

[Turtlejay]

The DDI builder says that you can use a weapon as a ki focus but that "The weapon's characteristics, proficiency bonus, damage die, and weapon properties like defensive or high crit - are irrelevant to your implement powers."

Now it may just be that the feats and items in question all are clear enough to balance this, but can you say use a subtle weapon to gain extra damage on all attacks or hold use a farslayer weapon and use its at will. And if one, but not the other, is it just understood that all monks get that type of weapon and use it as its ki focus?


And if not either, how can I explain to my character why this guy over here can use this items power, but you cannot?

You can use a weapon *with* a ki focus. . .I was not aware you could use a weapon as a key focus. . .

And the reason a player can't use the powers, properties, etc of a weapon while using it through his focus is the same reason he can't wear a suit of leather armor under his plate armor. You can't stack magic item uses like that. Using a Ki focus for the attack and damage enhancements to attack through a subtle dagger and gain the damage bonus from that is just like trying to wear two suits of armor.

If your player really has a problem with this, does he have a problem with the wizard player casting spells when the fighter can't? Sometimes a rule is just a rule.

Jay

 

[Flipguarder]

I see where I got confused. Technically a monk can use a ki focus or a weapon. But they both count as implements. Your ki focus is not your weapon.

However nice this clarification may be, it still doesn't answer my original question.

 

[1of3]

And if not either, how can I explain to my character why this guy over here can use this items power, but you cannot?

Using a magic item is not just swinging it. You need to be in tune with item's enchantment. If you use your ki-stuff, you attune yourself to your own inner strength, thereby ignoring the item's magic.

 

[Flipguarder]

Using a magic item is not just swinging it. You need to be in tune with item's enchantment. If you use your ki-stuff, you attune yourself to your own inner strength, thereby ignoring the item's magic.

Although that's fine and logical in a vacuum, that's just not in line with everything else in D&D. No other class needs to be in tune with a magic item to use it.

 

[Turtlejay]

I did give you the reason this doesn't work, you either didn't see it, or you don't get it. Different classes use magic items in different ways. Casters use implements. Meleers *can* use weapons. Some items blur the line. Some transcend it.

The Ki Focus supersedes the magic of any item you use with it. That is how it works. If your player can't grasp why that is, maybe he needs to play a Fighter armed only with an orb.

Jay

 

[Flipguarder]

I did give you the reason this doesn't work, you either didn't see it, or you don't get it. Different classes use magic items in different ways. Casters use implements. Meleers *can* use weapons. Some items blur the line. Some transcend it.

The Ki Focus supersedes the magic of any item you use with it. That is how it works. If your player can't grasp why that is, maybe he needs to play a Fighter armed only with an orb.

Jay

I understand your point but the idea of a fighter using an orb and a monk using a weapon as an implement are very different. A fighter can't use an orb because it 1. Doesn't have an implement power. 2. Is not proficient with the orb generally. A monk is told he can use a weapon as an implement, but its properties (high crit, brutal 2) don't count. Now the magic item section says this on page 232

"If you’re not proficient with the weapon type, you
don’t gain the proficiency bonus to attack rolls, but
you still gain the enhancement bonus of the magic
weapon."

If the monk is not able to utilize the magic properties of a weapon while using it as an implement, he is the only class that has that restriction to my knowledge. Your idea of "classes use different things differently" does not apply because it has nothing to do with proficiency or the weapon/implement keyword on powers.