Cure/inflict wounds spells revision

[Michael Silverbane]

Target is healed 1d8hp per spell level + additional hit points equal to 1 per HD of the target creature/spell level (min of +1 per spell level). If the target creature's HD are less than d8, reduce the number of per HD hp to 3/4 per HD for d6 HD and 1/2 per HD for d4 HD. If the target creature's HD are d10, increase number of per HD to 1.5; and if target has d12 HD, increase number of per HD to 2. If the target is multiclassed, use the HD value of the class with the most levels (or the higher HD if equal levels).

I don't much like making it dependent upon the Hit Die type, but making the healing dependent upon the HD of the target is a pretty cool idea, I think.

In my own games, I've revised the cure / inflict spells to 1d8+1 for every two levels, each spell capping three dice higher than the previous one. Cure light wounds and mass cure light wounds cap at 3d8+3 and so on. This does break the standard capping guidelines a bit, but it works okay for me.

Also, I do not prescribe to the abstract hit points theory for my own game. If a seventh level fighter survives a hit in the face from the giant's club, he really is just that tough. So, that colors my own house rules a bit.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I don't much like making it dependent upon the Hit Die type, but making the healing dependent upon the HD of the target is a pretty cool idea, I think.

I did like making healing dependent on the number of HD of the target, but I do see the issue with the added complications it brings.

I'm wondering if we can bring something in from 4e, here?

Whenever a character/creature receives healing, add 25% of the character/creature's max hit points to the total amount healed?

I know that something similar was dismissed earlier in the thread, but this actually is a lot simpler than having the DM roll dice secretly based upon PC/NPC/creature Hit Dice. It's pretty easy to get 25% of most any hp total quickly without having to reveal anything to the players that shouldn't be in the know concerning the subject's Hit Points.

So, here's how the spells would stack up:

• Cure Light Wounds
  When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5) plus 25% of the target's normal maximum hit points.
  
• Cure Moderate Wounds
  When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 2d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +10) plus 25% of the target's normal maximum hit points.
  
• Cure Serious Wounds
  When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 3d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +15) plus 25% of the target's normal maximum hit points.
  
• Cure Critical Wounds
  When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 3d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +20) plus 25% of the target's normal maximum hit points.

This effectively takes HD type and number, Constitution modifiers, and feats like Toughness into consideration.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Whenever a character/creature receives healing, add 25% of the character/creature's max hit points to the total amount healed?

I think the biggest problem with the above is that 4 cure light wounds spells then completely heals any creature, regardless of their total HP... A cure light and a quickened cure light restore one-half of any critter's HP on a single spellcaster's turn.

I think that each spell still needs a hard cap... So 1d8 + 25% (max +5) for cure light wounds and 2d8 + 25% (max +10) for cure moderate wounds and so on might be better, here.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

I think the biggest problem with the above is that 4 cure light wounds spells then completely heals any creature, regardless of their total HP... A cure light and a quickened cure light restore one-half of any critter's HP on a single spellcaster's turn.

True, but that's pretty much the case at 1st level by the RAW. Any first level character receiving 4 Cure Light Wounds, is very likely to be completely healed. And, in most cases, it wouldn't take that many.

Part of the reason for the including a variable based upon the the target creature is to keep these spells effective on higher level creatures. "Despite the fact that the number of hit points required to represent a wound with a particular severity varies depending on the character's total hit points, a cure spell heals a flat number of hit points. Thus, a cure light wounds spell used on a 1st level fighter will heal grievous wounds. When the same spell is used on a 10th level fighter, on the other hand, it can't handle more than a scratch." (The Alexandrian)

So, to me, it's not a problem that 4 cure spells will restore anyone to full hit points. Instead, it's a feature.

 

[Hawken]

The problem with the take from 4e is that in 4e the 25% boost is balanced by the fact that these healing surges (not sure what its actually called) are limited to a number of times per day, depending on class. So, a fighter gets 25% hp back X number of times per day, while a wizard gets back 25% hp back Y number of times per day.

I don't know if this healing surge means they can only receive healing a fixed number of times per day or if its just the 25% bonus they get a fixed number of times.

One last thing about the method I suggested: If it makes it simpler, base line the bonus value at +1/HD per spell level. Adjust this value by 25% per hd above or below the d8 value. Simple. Direct. Easy to remember.

I think one of the problems visualizing these spells is in their names; "Light Wounds", "Serious Wounds", etc. These imply anything from scratches to heart surgery and healing a 1st level character 8 out of 12hp is more than curing a "light wound". I think it would be better (although less dramatic) to just refer to the spells as Cure Wounds I, Cure Wounds II, etc.

Cleric: **casts Cure Light Wounds, heals wounded fighter 12hp**
Fighter: Wow! Thanks! You saved my life! What was that spell?
Cleric: Cure Light Wounds.
Fighter: But that wasn't a light wound. That hobgoblin got a lucky (critical) hit and stabbed me in the heart! I was a goner!
Cleric: It would have been a light wound if you were better (higher level) at fighting.
Fighter: Jerk!

 

[Kerrick]

The problem with the 25% thing, aside from what Michael said, is that 25% of Bob the wizard's hit points is a lot less than 25% of Frank the fighter's.

True, but that's pretty much the case at 1st level by the RAW. Any first level character receiving 4 Cure Light Wounds, is very likely to be completely healed. And, in most cases, it wouldn't take that many.

So? 1st level PCs are fragile. My proposed change does pretty much the same thing at higher levels - 3-4 CSWs will probably completely heal a L10 PC. It's all relative. Like you said - a feature. If you can keep the PCs going without resorting to mechanics like healing surges, I'm all for it.

I think one of the problems visualizing these spells is in their names; "Light Wounds", "Serious Wounds", etc. These imply anything from scratches to heart surgery and healing a 1st level character 8 out of 12hp is more than curing a "light wound". I think it would be better (although less dramatic) to just refer to the spells as Cure Wounds I, Cure Wounds II, etc.

Like I said, relative. Gygax talks about hit points in the 1E DMG; he said something to the effect that a sword thrust that would kill a L1 PC merely grazes a L10 PC due to his skill, luck, and sheer toughness. It still does the same amount of damage, but it's not as serious a wound.

Like hit points, the names require a little bit of suspension of disbelief. Aside from healing hit points, I ruled that increasingly severe injuries require higher-level cure spells to heal them properly - small broken bones (fingers) require CMW; larger ones (arm/leg) require CSW; missing limbs require CMW to seal (and no healing); multiple broken bones could require a CCW or even heal, or only work on 1-2 each. In all cases, the healing is half normal because part of the spell's energy is going toward fixing the problem.

 

[Hawken]

Like I said, relative.

Exactly what I was trying to do with my method--make it relative. But instead of making it relative to the spell or the caster, make it relative to the target.

A Cure Light Wounds spell should cure a light wound, regardless of the level of the target. The amount cured should be a "light" amount relative to the target whether its 2hp or 25hp.

Gygax talks about hit points in the 1E DMG; he said something to the effect that a sword thrust that would kill a L1 PC merely grazes a L10 PC due to his skill, luck, and sheer toughness. It still does the same amount of damage, but it's not as serious a wound.

I've read the same stuff from Gygax about hit points, but even that explanation is flawed--in the explanation itself. An attack can't do the "same damage" if luck, skill and toughness turn a fatal strike into a glancing blow. That's not the "same damage". An attack that would kill one man (stab through the heart) is the "same damage" if it would kill any other man (by stabbing them through the heart). Otherwise, its just not the same.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

The problem with the take from 4e is that in 4e the 25% boost is balanced by the fact that these healing surges (not sure what its actually called) are limited to a number of times per day, depending on class. So, a fighter gets 25% hp back X number of times per day, while a wizard gets back 25% hp back Y number of times per day.

I don't know if this healing surge means they can only receive healing a fixed number of times per day or if its just the 25% bonus they get a fixed number of times.

It wouldn't be hard to assign a limited number of "healing surges" per day to 3.x characters. One method is to take the Fort Save bonus, including all modifiers and use that as the number of "healing surges" per day. Of course, I'd recommend that all PC's have at least 1 healing surge per day, even if their Fort Save bonus is negative, simply because PC's are special.

This will mean that a fighter or cleric will usually be able to receive more healing per day than a wizard or rogue of equal level. But, since those two classes are more likely to be involved in direct melee more often, that's OK with me.

One last thing about the method I suggested: If it makes it simpler, base line the bonus value at +1/HD per spell level. Adjust this value by 25% per hd above or below the d8 value. Simple. Direct. Easy to remember.

This is simple enough as long as you're not dealing with multiclassed characters with multiple hit die types. The more types of hit dice a target has, the more complex this becomes.

I think one of the problems visualizing these spells is in their names; "Light Wounds", "Serious Wounds", etc. These imply anything from scratches to heart surgery and healing a 1st level character 8 out of 12hp is more than curing a "light wound". I think it would be better (although less dramatic) to just refer to the spells as Cure Wounds I, Cure Wounds II, etc.

I absolutely agree that they're misnamed. CW I, II, III, etc... is much better, in my opinion.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

The problem with the 25% thing, aside from what Michael said, is that 25% of Bob the wizard's hit points is a lot less than 25% of Frank the fighter's.

But, that's exactly the goal I'm trying to achieve. The fighter should benefit more from a healing spell than the wizard of the same level. It should be proportionate to the target being healed.

So? 1st level PCs are fragile. My proposed change does pretty much the same thing at higher levels - 3-4 CSWs will probably completely heal a L10 PC. It's all relative. Like you said - a feature. If you can keep the PCs going without resorting to mechanics like healing surges, I'm all for it.

Right. Adding healing surges to 3.x just adds another thing to keep track of, which is why I didn't include how I implemented it, at one time, until Hawken asked about how to do it. I didn't like trying to keep track of them and ultimately dropped the idea of a limited number of them because of it. Also, having a limited number of them just changes how often the PCs will stop to rest and recover their healing surges. Not having a limit means they can keep exploring a little longer without having to camp or go back to town.

 

[Hawken]

This is simple enough as long as you're not dealing with multiclassed characters with multiple hit die types. The more types of hit dice a target has, the more complex this becomes.

True. But I mentioned a fix to this with my first suggestion.

In the case of multiclassed characters, use the HD of the class with the highest levels. In the case of equal number of levels among different classes, use the highest HD value between the equal level classes.