Cure/inflict wounds spells revision

[nonsi256]

• Cure Wounds I:
  1d8 +1 per caster level (max +5) +1 per HD of target (max +5)
• Cure Wounds II:
  2d8 +1 per caster level (max +10) +2 per HD of target (max +20)
• Cure Wounds III:
  3d8 +1 per caster level (max +15) +3 per HD of target (max +45)
• Cure Wounds IV:
  4d8 +1 per caster level (max +20) +4 per HD of target (max +80)
• Heal:
  10hp per caster level (max 150) +6 per HD of target (max +90)

Very nicely done - the best execution so far.
But I still see some issues that require attantion:
1. If you wish to maintain relativity between the different spells, you shouldn't cap the "per HD" factor.
2. For simplicity's sake and to keep true to the original spells' names, instead of HP per target's HD, you could make it +10% - +40% respectively.
3. Given Heal cures so many things other than HP, the HP diff is a radical and disproportional upgrade to CCW. I'd suggest limiting it to 5 HP per caster level (max 100) + 50% target's max HP.

The above are even more relevant when using spell-points rather than spell-slots.

 

[Sadrik]

By RAW:
1st CLW: averages 5.5-9.5 by RAW
2nd CMW: averages 12-19 by RAW
3rd CSW: averages 18.5-28.5 by RAW
4th CCW: averages 25-38 by RAW
5th Mass CLW: averages 13.5-24.5 by RAW
6th Mass CMW: averages 20-29 by RAW
7th Mass CSW: averages 26.5-33.5 by RAW
8th Mass CCW: averages 33-38 by RAW

6th Heal: 110-150 by RAW
9th Mass Heal: 170-200 by RAW

Why not:
CLW 2d8 averages 9
CMW 4d8 averages 18
CSW 6d8 averages 27
CCW 8d8 averages 36
Heal, lesser 1d8/level up to 15d8 (made up 5th level spell) averages 40.5-67.5
Heal 2d8/level up to 30d8 (6th as usual) averages 99-135

Or another idea:
CLW 1d6 per level up to 4d6
CMW 1d6 per level up to 8d6
CSW 1d6 per level up to 12d6
CCW 1d6 per level up to 16d6
Heal, lesser 1d6 per level up to 20d6 (made up 5th level spell)
Heal 1d6 per level up to 30d6 (6th as usual)

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

But, that doesn't work, either. Here's why. Poison. If poison relies on injury to affect the target, why is it necessary for the target to make a saving throw to avoid the effects of the poison if they dodged the strike that would have delivered the poison?

Huh? If the attack doesn't hit or deal damage (e.g., bypass DR), there's no save involved unless it's contact poison.

Sorry. Wasn't clear enough.

I was speaking of the idea that some hold that a hit in combat isn't a hit until a character or creature drops to zero hit points. Instead, it's a dodge as long as the character has enough hit points to avoid going to zero or below, rather than an actual hit.

I don't subscribe to this theory that hit points are actually dodge points, but some do.

If hit points represented pure dodging ability, then poison couldn't be delivered unless the target had dropped to zero or fewer hit points.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

• Cure Wounds I:
  1d8 +1 per caster level (max +5) +1 per HD of target (max +5)
  
• Cure Wounds II:
  2d8 +1 per caster level (max +10) +2 per HD of target (max +20)
  
• Cure Wounds III:
  3d8 +1 per caster level (max +15) +3 per HD of target (max +45)
  
• Cure Wounds IV:
  4d8 +1 per caster level (max +20) +4 per HD of target (max +80)
  
• Heal:
  10hp per caster level (max 150) +6 per HD of target (max +90)

Very nicely done - the best execution so far.

Thanks, Nonsi256. I appreciate that.

But I still see some issues that require attantion:
1. If you wish to maintain relativity between the different spells, you shouldn't cap the "per HD" factor.

I can see removing that cap. The reason that I didn't was mainly to hold to the existing pattern.

2. For simplicity's sake and to keep true to the original spells' names, instead of HP per target's HD, you could make it +10% - +40% respectively.

Honestly, that's probably what I'll do in my own game, as I truly believe that the number of Hit Dice doesn't tell the whole story. And, since I agree with Gygax that hit points partially represent some sort of supernatural favour, I can see a good reason for healing to affect beings with a higher max hit point total to a greater degree than those with a lower hit point max.

3. Given Heal cures so many things other than HP, the HP diff is a radical and disproportional upgrade to CCW. I'd suggest limiting it to 5 HP per caster level (max 100) + 50% target's max HP.

I can see that. But, I'd go with 60% instead of 50% so that the percentage is a factor of the spell level. I'm not sure it needs the reduction from 10hp per level or the reduced cap, either.

I think the version you presented could be turned into a reasonable 5th level version of the spell, though. May not heal all those conditions, but possible some of them.

The above are even more relevant when using spell-points rather than spell-slots.

I agree. I abandoned spell slots a long time ago in favour of spell points.

 

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

By RAW:
1st CLW: averages 5.5-9.5 by RAW
2nd CMW: averages 12-19 by RAW
3rd CSW: averages 18.5-28.5 by RAW
4th CCW: averages 25-38 by RAW
5th Mass CLW: averages 13.5-24.5 by RAW
6th Mass CMW: averages 20-29 by RAW
7th Mass CSW: averages 26.5-33.5 by RAW
8th Mass CCW: averages 33-38 by RAW

6th Heal: 110-150 by RAW
9th Mass Heal: 170-200 by RAW

Why not:
CLW 2d8 averages 9
CMW 4d8 averages 18
CSW 6d8 averages 27
CCW 8d8 averages 36
Heal, lesser 1d8/level up to 15d8 (made up 5th level spell) averages 40.5-67.5
Heal 2d8/level up to 30d8 (6th as usual) averages 99-135

Or another idea:
CLW 1d6 per level up to 4d6
CMW 1d6 per level up to 8d6
CSW 1d6 per level up to 12d6
CCW 1d6 per level up to 16d6
Heal, lesser 1d6 per level up to 20d6 (made up 5th level spell)
Heal 1d6 per level up to 30d6 (6th as usual)

Of these two versions, I like the second set best. Here's why... I have a load of d6's, but not nearly as many d8's. If I'm going to roll that many dice, I prefer d6's.




I'm torn between this one and the version in the post, above. For me, this one needs some extra healing based on the target. Perhaps, a simple +10% of target's max HP per spell level?

 

[chando]

Hi guys,

Fisrt, I don't think there is any need for changing the Heal spell at all, in any way. Its just fine the way it is (maybe you could up the cap to 20 if you wanted, but thats about it)

Now, on Sadrik suggestion on rolling 2d8/spell level: This is really nice, it increases a little the damage healed but not by much. But instead of it we could just use the 10/20/30/40 hp variation instead for a cleaner house-rule.
----

now, I'm not sure about this, but have you guys considered just changing all cure spells (and inflict as well, but not Harm/Heal) to swift action casting times instead? with or without a revision to its hit points healed, it would really make it worth it casting in combat, as you could cast some other spell or full-attack on the same turn as well, thus not making a action spent on healing a bad action almost always. Thoughs?

(I guess i wouldn't affect wands, as i think spell trigger items always use a standard action casting time, so no "everyone using swift actions to heal 10 hp everyround" , it would only work for cast spells)