D&D (2024) Spell-less Paladin variant, lay on hands as main resource for damage.

[Cap'n Kobold]

Not many groups play where spell conservation is important. If you only have a couple of encounters a day, then putting a bless up then smiting on crits and primary targets gets you further than having spells left at the end of the day. Also remember that a smite is guaranteed damage, which should be factored in to its damage calculation when comparing to smite spells.
A level three spell can be useful, but you're not comparing most of them with 4d8 smite, you're comparing them with 4d8 or more smite as well as the damage for two or three attacks. In terms of action economy, divine smite is amazing.

I would probably suggest removing divine smite, and the concentration requirement for smite spells for more interesting play.

 

[Pauln6]

This is wild to me.

It’s 5 more damage than wrathful smite. You trade frightened which is a huge debuff for 5 damage. Thunderous does 2 less damage on average, and knocks a creature back and prone. In a melee heavy group, that enemy is probably dead by the time it’s turn comes around. The only reason to use divine smite over these is that you are already concentrating, which brings us to:

Bless. Bless is objectively more effective than smite. 2d8 extra damage once, or potentially a whole fight, but usually more like 2-3 rounds, of 3 PCs getting +2.5 average bonus on basically every check. Huge in a fight, even bigger in exploration or interaction challenges.

don’t like concentration?

Command. Incredibly good spell. Can turn a hard fight into an easy one, not to mention out of combat.

Aid. No concentration, 3 Allie’s get 5 max and current hp. Roughly equal to 3d8 damage once.

I’ve seen more battles swayed by Compelled duel than by 2d8 extra damage on a single attack.

Then we get to 3rd level slots, and it’s no contest. Unless it’s a clutch crit, any divine smite above 1st level is a waste of a spell slot IMO. Like almost every 3rd level spell is better than 4d8 extra damage on a single attack.

Clutch crit is actually almost the only time I actually see DS used in my group’s games, with occasional “this guy really needs to die right now” or RP moments where the character would hold nothing back. In actual play shows it’s maybe 50/50 usage of slots IME.

Yes I think you are right but this does demonstrate that many players value simple damage boosts compared to obtuse damage mitigation or team boosts where your own endorphin hit is lower. The buzz is the same when the paladin does 80 damage on a single crit despite the villain only having 20hp left and maybe that's part of the issue despite being less effective on a closer analysis. This issue for me is more where the extra damage caps out, especially on a crit. It becomes frustrating if your BBEG loses a third of their hp in one hit before anyone else has even tried.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes I think you are right but this does demonstrate that many players value simple damage boosts compared to obtuse damage mitigation or team boosts where your own endorphin hit is lower. The buzz is the same when the paladin does 80 damage on a single crit despite the villain only having 20hp left and maybe that's part of the issue despite being less effective on a closer analysis.

Yeah absolutely! I’m just always surprised when optimization discussions overvalue the feature dramatically.

This issue for me is more where the extra damage caps out, especially on a crit. It becomes frustrating if your BBEG loses a third of their hp in one hit before anyone else has even tried.

I can see that. I tend to build BBEGs with self healing that also changes the battlefield, like one guy sucked life from his minions to heal himself, and minions that died became undead, while already dead corpses I rolled a d6 and on a 5 or 6 they rose as undead as well. This could be used as a reaction to hitting half HP or 0HP.

To me, that allows me to have longer and harder fights just like adding more HP would, but unlike more HP it adds to the dynamic nature of the fight.