Should the Bard have been primal?

[Ryujin]

Would that do the trick? havent really tried out PMC... the attack is not directly the power from the MC assuming that form is already at-will.
if so I will just look sheepish but happier.

You have to take all three of the power swap feats in order to qualify for Paragon Multi-Classing. It's done rather than going for a Paragon Path.

At 11th you substitute one of your at-wills for that of the multi-class.

At 11th you select an encounter power of 7th level or below from the multi-class, to take the place of what would be a Paragon Path encounter power.

At 12th you take a utility power from the multi-class, of 10th level or below, to replace the Paragon Path utility that you would otherwise get.

At 20th take a daily power (19th or below) from the multi-class to replace the PP daily that you would normally get.

Now add in that many Bards from the traditional epics were said to have some "Fey blood" (ie. Half-Elf) and figure that into your build. That should give a good range of Primal abilities to play with.

 

[Garthanos]

Historically, most cultures don't differentiate power sources — you could easily say that in a Celtic framework, Druids and bards are divine, because they are priests. You could even say they are arcane, because they were the ones who studied the laws of magic, performing astronology, etc.

power sources in the game however do have strengths lke shape shifting ... which are also reflected in the real world myths ... so Celtic divine is much closer to the game Primal.

 

[Garthanos]

You have to take all three of the power swap feats in order to qualify for Paragon Multi-Classing. It's done rather than going for a Paragon Path.

At 11th you substitute one of your at-wills for that of the multi-class.

At 11th you select an encounter power of 7th level or below from the multi-class, to take the place of what would be a Paragon Path encounter power.

At 12th you take a utility power from the multi-class, of 10th level or below, to replace the Paragon Path utility that you would otherwise get.

At 20th take a daily power (19th or below) from the multi-class to replace the PP daily that you would normally get.

Now add in that many Bards from the traditional epics were said to have some "Fey blood" (ie. Half-Elf) and figure that into your build. That should give a good range of Primal abilities to play with.

It think aside from the scary cost of all those feats this will work very nicely.

 

[Ryujin]

It think aside from the scary cost of all those feats this will work very nicely.

If you can manage all of that and spare one more feat too, I would put it into Combat Virtuoso (CHA for attacks with MC powers). That limits your MAD issues.

 

[IanB]

To answer the OP, no, the bard should not have been primal. Given that 4e D&D druids are basically completely divorced from the Celtic roots that at least nominally used to exist, putting bards into what is essentially a shamanistic power source would make little sense, other than doing it just to keep them in the same category.

If you wanted 'historical' bards frankly I think martial is the closest power source for them. Reflavor the warlord to recite inspiring poetry instead of giving military speeches and you've basically got your class.

 

[Garthanos]

If you wanted 'historical' bards frankly I think martial is the closest power source for them.

Um I want mythical ... not historical there is considerable conceptual overlap given how far back we are talking but not quite the same.

 

[IanB]

Um I want mythical ... not historical there is considerable conceptual overlap given how far back we are talking but not quite the same.

Honestly it probably even works better for mythical bards (such as they are) than any of our other choices at the moment. Primal is probably the last choice I'd make other than psionics; the primal power source in D&D is very tied up in ancestor spirits and natural phenomena that have little to nothing to do with what you see in Celtic folklore and myth. Splashing a little magic into a warlord via multiclassing is as close as you're going to get right now IMO.

 

[Kzach]

Honestly it probably even works better for mythical bards (such as they are) than any of our other choices at the moment. Primal is probably the last choice I'd make other than psionics; the primal power source in D&D is very tied up in ancestor spirits and natural phenomena that have little to nothing to do with what you see in Celtic folklore and myth. Splashing a little magic into a warlord via multiclassing is as close as you're going to get right now IMO.

I don't know what Celtic folklore and myth you're talking about 'cause the Celtic folklore and myth I know of is very heavily rooted in the natural world.

 

[IanB]

I don't know what Celtic folklore and myth you're talking about 'cause the Celtic folklore and myth I know of is very heavily rooted in the natural world.

But not shamanistic-style animal/ancestor spirits and the like, which is what primarily makes up the flavor of the Primal source in 4e D&D. It has much more to do with shamanism and animism than it does to do with the fairly typical Western European polytheism of Celtic myth.

If we're talking New Age-y Celtic stuff then I'll just bow out, but there's virtually nothing Primal-flavored in my copies of the Mabinogion or the Táin. No totems, no ancestor spirits, etc. Even the barbarian rage powers in 4e are spirit-flavored and haven't much to do with Cú Chulainn's battle frenzy.

Mind you I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with how they did the Primal source in D&D, I rather like it myself, but if you're looking to model Celtic mythology you're not making a good choice picking it, IMO.

 

[Ryujin]

I don't know what Celtic folklore and myth you're talking about 'cause the Celtic folklore and myth I know of is very heavily rooted in the natural world.

Primal isn't necessarily what people would refer to as the 'natural world.'