Grognard good...grognard bad

[Mallus]

The Secret of NIMH?

Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH is the One True Version. Any others --for instance, the inferior film adaptation-- are pale imitations.

(am I doing that right?)

 

[The Shaman]

Grognard literally means 'grumbler'. How is someone a grognard if they aren't grumbling?

My son is named William. That doesn't make him the minister of defense for the kingdom of Norway.

 

[Scribble]

Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH is the One True Version. Any others --for instance, the inferior film adaptation-- are pale imitations.

(am I doing that right?)

Once more with feeling please.

 

[Mallus]

Once more with feeling please.

Hey... that was with feeling. Would it help if I called people who preferred the movie idiots and philistines?

(It really was my favorite children's book -- why if I had a son I'd saddle him w/the name Nicodemus!)

 

[Ourph]

My son is named William. That doesn't make him the minister of defense for the kingdom of Norway.

No, but if, as an adult, he chose to refer to himself as "William the Swift", it wouldn't be unreasonable for people to assume he is locomotively gifted in some way.

Likewise, if gamers who like older games adopt an appelation deriving from a specific historical group and with a previous meaning attached, it isn't unreasonable for people to assume those who choose that name recognize a certain level of similarity between the attitudes of that historical group (i.e. grumpiness and a propensity for complaining about the current state of affairs) and themselves. To insist that "grognard" in a gaming context means and ONLY means "likes older games" is silly. The original usage has nothing to do with liking older things, it's related to grumpiness and complaining. Excluding that part of the meaning when referring to gamers makes the term meaningless. You might as well call gamers who prefer older games "applewagons" or "odelisques". Those terms have as much to do with liking older games as the original usage of "grognard" does.

I, personally, am happy to accept the label of grognard with all of it's attendant baggage. I can be grumpy about things in RPGs I don't like and I accept that I have a propensity to complain long and loud about those things if given half the chance. The only objection I have is the assertion in this thread that complaining automatically equates to putting down other gamers and assuming a position of superiority. That's not part of being a "grognard", it's just being a jerk. There are a lot of grognards who are also jerks. There are a lot of gamers in general who are also jerks. But being a jerk isn't any more inherent to being a grognard than it is to being a gamer in general. (IMHO, YMMV, etc.)

 

[Diamond Cross]

Make-up, cover up, lighten up...hard face, stark face, lovely face.

Inner beauty, outer beauty, true beauty...innocence, innovation, interaction.

Experiment, experience, excitement...skin, bone, soul...girl, women, human.

Androgyny, anarchy, energy...strong looks, striking looks, real looks.

Self-expression, self-assurance, self-esteem...shades, colour, light.

Do it yourself, do it myself, do it from the heart.
Re-invention, re-discover, re-search...life, love, laughs...

'I've seen Inge Grognard at work, backstage at a fashion show, in her own studio, creating, concentrating, cracking jokes, and I think she knows quite something about all of the above...'

contemporary fashion archive

So apparently, Grognard can also be a person's Christian name.

Who'd a thunk eet?

 

[The Shaman]

No, but if, as an adult, he chose to refer to himself as "William the Swift", it wouldn't be unreasonable for people to assume he is locomotively gifted in some way.

My boy's trending more toward "William the Tall," actually. Maybe even "William the Fair," from all the girls who tell me how beautiful his eyes are.

Likewise, if gamers who like older games adopt an appelation deriving from a specific historical group and with a previous meaning attached, it isn't unreasonable for people to assume those who choose that name recognize a certain level of similarity between the attitudes of that historical group (i.e. grumpiness and a propensity for complaining about the current state of affairs) and themselves.

The problem I see with this is that grognard in both its original context and its adopted context among wargamers was intended as an appellation for veterans, not complainers per se.

 

[Ourph]

The problem I see with this is that grognard in both its original context and its adopted context among wargamers was intended as an appellation for veterans, not complainers per se.

I disagree. The original context didn't refer simply to veterans, but to veterans who were experienced enough to notice the mistakes and failings of their superior officers and, thus, sit around grumbling about them. The word literally means "grumbler" (alternately "curmudgeon" or "one who snarls") in French. If the meaning was simply "veteran" then they would have been called "veterans". So,the word implies some level of experience and knowledge, but it has additional meaning beyond that to include someone who is moved to grumble about the current condition of things because they have the knowledge and experience to see that they could be or have been better.

The context as it appeared in gaming (in my experience) was a bunch of (veteran) wargamers complaining about "these newfangled RPG things" and how they were invading and changing the wargaming hobby. So the term grognard was a perfect nickname both because it originated in a context very familiar to wargamers and because the attitude implied by that nickname perfectly described the attitude of the people it was being applied to. It's not as if the people who started using that term didn't know that it meant "grumbler" in French or what that implied about the person being described.

 

[The Shaman]

I disagree. The original context didn't refer simply to veterans, but to veterans who were experienced enough to notice the mistakes and failings of their superior officers and, thus, sit around grumbling about them. The word literally means "grumbler" (alternately "curmudgeon" or "one who snarls") in French. If the meaning was simply "veteran" then they would have been called "veterans".

Forgive me, but I have to call malarkey right there. Does a leatherneck actually support his head on a piece of cured calfskin, or a jarhead have a brain-in-a-bottle?

Grognard is a colloquialism, both in French and in English, and it simply refers to old soldiers or veterans.

Here's an account of how it came to be applied to gamers; I would suggest a quick look at the OED definition which is included on the page.

 

[Ourph]

Forgive me, but I have to call malarkey right there.

The OED definition you cite has the word "grumbler" right there in the definition. But, please feel free to believe what you want. I'm not feeling particularly grognardly today.