Slow Advancement Rocks

[Reynard]

I am running my current Pathfinder campaign with the Slow Advancement switch clicked (for those unfamiliar, Pathfinder offers three different advancement tracks: fast, medium (i.e. typical 3.x) and slow (closer to AD&D)) and I must say it has vastly improved the game.

The campaign started as a 3.5 game. It was fun, but I was running an "old school" campaign style, except that the PCs were gaining levels very quickly. No one was exploring the various play options at any individual level, myself included, and it was bugging me.

For different reasons entirely (i.e. I wanted new stuff) I converted the campaign over to Pathfinder. Before doing so, I didn't even know that it has an official "slow advancement" option. When I realized it did, though, I bumped the PCs (during a "down time") to 9th level and switched on slow advancement.

It rocks.

The PCs have been there for about 6 sessions and are just nearing 10th level now. XP is still a good motivator, but I can be a little freer with CRs and the like and not speed-level the party. The players are really "getting" their characters and the characters' options and abilities -- especially the newbie girlfriend turned awesome player.

After 10 years of 3.x's speed levelling, I had nearly forgotten the benefits of keeping advancement steady but slow. I know some folks advocate "levelling whenever it's story appropriate", but since my campaigns are not "stories" that has never worked for or set well with me. I like XP as a reward and how it drives player motivation, and having this tool handed back to me (official rules are better than fiat, I feel) is pretty darn awesome.

Thanks, Pathfinder. Now get to work on that "B/X" style PF game.

 

[Hussar]

Six sessions to level is slow for you? How fast were you leveling before and how long are your sessions?

Six sessions was pretty much standard for my groups throughout 3e.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

For purposes of comparison,

3.5 assumed about 13.33 encounters of a challenge equal to your level to gain a level.

In Pathfinder

Fast play is 13.33 encounters of a challenge equal to your level to gain a level.
Average play is 20 encounters of a challenge equal to your level to gain a level.
Slow play is 30 encounters of a challenge equal to your level to gain a level.

There are, of course, revised treasure guidelines for each of the different play speed.

Glad to hear that the slow play option is working for your group! Rapid leveling, while fun, was a change to the game that always kinda bugged me.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

 

[Hussar]

That's a very cool idea.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

It rocks.

Really? Wow. I'd find 30 encounters/level agonizingly slow. Even 3e's 13/level is far slower than I've ever liked to go; 4e's 10/level is the absolute slowest I can go without twiddling my mental thumbs.

 

[wedgeski]

Under my main 4E campaign the guys just rubbed their feet on the welcome mat of Paragon Tier during our 55th session. At around 4 hours per session, that's exactly five sessions, or 10-12 encounters, per level.

This has turned out to be quite a good rate of advancement for us, combining lots of roleplaying and combat opportunities with a good sense of progress. As the DM I'd prefer things to be moving a little more slowly, but if they're happy, I'm happy. At this rate the campaign, if it proceeds all the way to 30th level as intended, will run to about 150 sessions.

 

[Ranes]

I'm a fan of slower-than-3.x level advancement. It's not too big a deal at higher levels but I find the default too fast for my taste at lower levels. I think it matters even more with new players and new DMs. Slower levelling gives everyone the chance to get to grips with the abilities their characters have, before introducing new ones, as well as allowing for a wider range of CRs, as has already been said.

The other thing is that I find less need to slow the passing of game time (introducing days of downtime between opportunities for the party to continue their adventure), something I often find myself wanting to do when using default XP awards.

 

[Lanefan]

Really? Wow. I'd find 30 encounters/level agonizingly slow. Even 3e's 13/level is far slower than I've ever liked to go; 4e's 10/level is the absolute slowest I can go without twiddling my mental thumbs.

Whereas every 6 sessions (as the OP is getting with PF's slow-advance system) is still fast by my standards; though not completely out of line. In the Saturday game I play in the leading characters are nicely into 7th, on 153 sessions starting from raw 1st. That's about a level bump per 22 sessions by raw numbers, but it's actually a bit more frequent once you factor in character turnover and the occasional level drainer; it probably works out in reality to more like 1 in 18. The games I'm currently running are harder to track, as several parties are running concurrently but using the same session count; I'd guess it's been a bit faster (maybe 1 in 12 to 1 in 15) so far but it's beginning to plateau now they're reaching 5th level or so.

Then again, I play the game for the fun of whaling on monsters, finding out what's around the next corner, and learning what this neat magic trinket does; thus I see experience points and levelling as more an occasional (but pleasant) side effect of play rather than the reason for it.

BTW, 3e as written can easily be slowed down as well - just double (or triple, or increase by whatever factor suits ya) all the level bump points on the chart. But remember to chuck out the wealth-by-level guidelines while you're at it, unless you want to be really stingy with the treasure...and where's the fun in that?

Lanefan

 

[Reynard]

I suspect it'll be a total of 8 to 10 sessions before the PCs hit level 10 -- and that may not seem like "slow advancement" to some, but it certainly is to me in my experience with 3.x. I tend to have "high challenges" from an XP perspective -- a half dozen orc barbarians is worth a lot of XP to a small, low-ish level group using the standard 3.x rules, even though such an encounter would be relatively trivial (XP wise) in previous editions of the game. I guess I never got good at making the mot out of under CR'ed 3.x encounters.

 

[BlubSeabass]

Hehe, my players would kill me if I made them level so slow. For us, 13 encounters in a level to develop a character, hence we play fast advancement. I prefer playing 2 campaigns shorter in playtime then one long one.