Permanent Arcane Sight... help with rulings plz...

[Dark Dragon]

I've rules IMC that Detect Magic (and as a consequence, AS and GAS) can't detect illusions. The only way to detect illusion is to interact with them and make a save or to use True Seeing. Invisibility (and the greater version) has See Invisibility, Invisibility Purge and Blindsight as an "opposed" spells, and Glitterdust and Faerie Fire may help also. For other illusions, True Seeing is a good choice.

As a DM, I had the same problems as schnee: one of the party wizards has AS permanently online. Removing illusion spells from the list of detectable spells (via Detect Magic and similar effects) avoided a lot of problems and gave the illusion school back a bit of power.

If a wizard has Mind Blank and AS active, illusion spells become nearly worthless, because they are either easily detectable as illusions (the spellcraft DC is quite low) with AS or have the mind-affecting descriptor....

 

[Factol Rhys]

Well, the problem with Arcane Sight is that, according to the most liberal reading of its effects, it not only shows you where an invisible creature is, but the average PC hiding in the woods would also show up, thanks to his everything-down-to-my-belt-buckle-is-magical. To tone this down, I would say that you rule that Arcane Sight is foiled by Invisibility, which functions by blocking a creature's vision, which Arcane Sight is a part of.

 

[Thanee]

Well, by a strict reading of the rules, AS does not help detect someone in hiding, but I'd at least give a circumstance bonus to spot there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Saeviomagy]

See Invisibility lets you see invisible creatures and objects.

But if there's an invisible object in a box, you can't see it... nto because you're incapable of seeing invisible objects, but because it's in a box.

That would be because see invisibility has a specific line:

"You can see any objects or beings that are invisible within your range of vision, as well as any that are ethereal, as if they were normally visible"

So of course you can't see through a box - the object's visible or invisible status has nothing to do with whether it's in a box. If it was normally visible, you still couldn't see it, thus you cannot see it now.

Arcane Sight lets you see magical auras. But you still can't see things in a box. The aura is something-you-are-capable-of-seeing, because of the spell... but the box gets in the way. The spell allows you to see magical auras within 120 feet, but that doesn't change the fact that sometimes, objects are opaque...
-Hyp.

Arcane sight merely says "you can see magical auras within 120 feet of you", and that "you know the location and power of all the aura's you can see".

And finally, it says "if the items or creatures bearing the aura are within line of sight, you can make spellcraft checks...."

Which would add together to suggest to me that you need not have a creature or item within line of sight to 'see' it's aura.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Arcane sight merely says "you can see magical auras within 120 feet of you", and that "you know the location and power of all the aura's you can see".

"And I levitate upwards 20 feet."
"You can't; the ceiling's ten feet high."
"Doesn't matter. Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. The spell says it allows me to move myself up as I wish; it doesn't say 'unless there's a solid object in the way'."

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

"And I levitate upwards 20 feet."
"You can't; the ceiling's ten feet high."
"Doesn't matter. Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. The spell says it allows me to move myself up as I wish; it doesn't say 'unless there's a solid object in the way'."

-Hyp.

Actually, I'd be accepting that arguement, but only if levitate had a paragraph that stated

"in the event that you don't move someone through a solid object ...."

See my point?

 

[radmod]

Sigh.
So I read through all the posts and there is no definitive answer about whether or not AS works against hide. Some people seem to think it does, others argue it doesn't but no one is truly countering the other's argument. LOS specifically says you can't see if you're blocked. Hiding would be blocking LOS so that seems to imply AS doesn't work, EXCEPT what it all boils down to is "what is an aura" and "what is the size of an aura". If an aura is a millimeter thin field about a person than AS would not work vs. hide. If the aura takes up a five foot space then AS may work against hide (behind a tree but not a wall).

 

[jefgorbach]

Obvious none of you are near-sighted because this is ridicously easy to comprehend for those us who are.

Detect Magic/Arcane Sight simply allow the user to tell what (if any) spell effects are currently affecting an area ... like walking around without your glasses. You can generally tell what/where the room/contents are, but everything is blurry without the fine details revealing just exactly what it is you're looking at.

The easiest way of thinking/describing it is as if each spell covers the target with a sheet colored according to what School it belongs to with stronger effects having more vibrant colors. Normally these sheets cant be seen, however Detect Magic allows you to see where it is (round 1) ... and with concentration, detemine if multiple sheets are covering it and what the most vibrant color is (round 2). Further staring determines how the colors are stacked (round 3); etc. Arcane Sight does the same thing without having to stare at the location for several rounds.

To answer the original question, lets agree the Illusion school is represented by green sheets, beginning with a very pale green for a first level effect (like magic aura), becoming progressively darker to culminate with a very dark emerald sheet representing ninth level effects like Weird.

The mage with arcane Sight (ie without glasses) walks into a room, quickly spotting the leafy green sheet he's come to recognize as being a second level Illusion effect loosly covering something. The subject's general placement and vague humanoid shape implies its either an individual or statue, but he wont be able to determine which until he drops the magical sight to see the subject's fine details (ie puts on his glasses) because until he does so, it could just as likely be a statue enchanted to pass along a message via a Magic Mouth as someone hiding invisibly against the wall, or using any of the other second-level effects: blur, hypnotic pattern, minor image, etc.

 

[radmod]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/jefgorbach.html"leafy green sheet". I love it. I think I'll steal it.
"In the center of the room you see a leafy green sheet. Roll initiative."

Being nearsighted myself, I think it's an even better analogy than you intended. Detect Magic indicates that some auras overpower others. So, for me, if I saw a leafy green sheet wearing a yellow scarf, my first impression would be of a leafy green sheet.
Also, if the sheet were hiding behind something, I really doubt I would see it. (Of course, I'm not entirely sure I would see it if I DID have my glasses on, but ...)

 

[frankthedm]

arcane sight permanency'ed is one of the game changers that I feel a GM should give strong consideration to just house ruling in out of the campaign.

if the GM keeps it, then the one character is going to eat up lots of time as the GM has to describe all the auras the character sees. Also the character will strain relations with many non hostile NPCs since the casters eyes are always glowing. Casters that recognize the effect will probably not appreciate potentially being sized up by the "See your highest spell level" option of arcane sight.