Slow Advancement Rocks

[billd91]

If this is not your definition of "campaign," what do you call a series of adventures with a set of PCs? For instance, if you played through the Temple of Elemental Evil, then the Giants, then the Drow with a set of PCs (give or take as death and such happen), and then the PCs retired, what would you call this? I call it a campaign set in the World of Greyhawk. You'd call it a [what] set in the Greyhawk campaign?

It could be called a campaign, particularly if the DM and players see it in a fairly encapsulated way. The game starts, the adventures play out, the game is done. But if you're focused on a set of adventures with a set of PCs, what do you call it if half the PCs die and are replaced by other PCs? How about if a player drops out of the game and another one or two come in? Is it still one campaign or is it now multiple campaigns because the set of PCs or players changed?

Now, imagine a game in which the players bring different characters in from time to time, mixing and matching adventuring parties for different adventures, and this keeps going on for years with the only constant being the setting. The timeline more or less advances throughout with the actions of earlier PCs being written into the history for later PCs to know about. Is this also a campaign? If not, why not?

 

[S'mon]

If this is not your definition of "campaign," what do you call a series of adventures with a set of PCs? For instance, if you played through the Temple of Elemental Evil, then the Giants, then the Drow with a set of PCs (give or take as death and such happen), and then the PCs retired, what would you call this? I call it a campaign set in the World of Greyhawk. You'd call it a [what] set in the Greyhawk campaign?

Um, there is definitely a level between 'world' and 'campaign' in the sense of campaign you use. Eg you have Earth, you have World War 2, you have lots of military campaigns within WW2. So campaign =/= 'world' and your premise is a bit off. As a GM you can run lots of different campaigns on Earth, in different genres, different rulesets. I've run a fairly wide range of fantasy genres and FRPG systems in games set on my primary fantasy campaign world.

Re your query, I might call a linked series of adventures concerning a PC group a campaign, or it might be one part of a broader campaign with multiple PC groups, different areas, etc. I think a campaign is defined by continuity and elements below the level of 'same world', eg my original broad AD&D Ea campaign was set across 2 continents and hundreds of years, but had a strong apocalyptic theme, with Graz'zt and Hel figuring prominently as villains, demonic invasions, the fall of empires and such. My later Ea: Time of Chaos campaign had a very literary feel (possibly due to not using D&D rules), the main theme was Chaos reborn following the end of a golden age, but the main focus was a sort of picaresque travelogue approach looking at the stories of many different heroes and their occasional interactions.

 

[coyote6]

Hmm, the longest running campaign I've been a part of is (nearly?) 20 years old, and has spanned two GMs, 7 players (or more; I'm probably forgetting someone), three entirely different game systems (T2K, GURPS, M&M), multiple settings, and crossed over with at least five or six other campaigns.

The longest running game I alone GMed for was probably about a decade long, and was a GURPS game set in the modern day, involving occult conspiracies, supers, magic, Nazis, ninjas, ultra-terrestrials, martial arts, an extended bout of world-jumping, and concluded* with a gigantic battle against an ultra-dimensional entity of god-like power.

*Technically, it's on hiatus. I promised we'd get back to it. Not sure that'll ever happen, though.

None of the long running games had much to do with caring "about having a sword, waterskins, and ammo" (though an occasional adventure might've involved running low on ammo, and having to carefully conserve); none of them were D&D-style fantasy, though. They also were in game systems that didn't go from "zero to demi-god" as much as D&D can (though the differences between a GURPS character with combat skill of 15- and one with 22-, plus Weapon Master, Trained by a Master, and a page of maneuvers/techniques can be pretty amazing).

 

[Aloïsius]

13, 20 or 30 encounters, the problem stays the same : PC carve their way in a path of blood. Sure, fight is fun. But I'm myself somewhat tired from the hack and slash type of game. I want more political/intrigue/skill challenge, and far less fights. And even more, I want less of the "kill and loot" routine.

I still like levelling however, but want to tie it more to the story. Wanna master the legendary spell of Mordenkainen ? Perfect ! You just gave to find the lost tome of magic, who was last owned by a exiled noble... Wanna learn the secret techniques called "the whirlwind attack" ? It is said that there is a master of the whirling blade living in the shadow mountains.

 

[billd91]

13, 20 or 30 encounters, the problem stays the same : PC carve their way in a path of blood. Sure, fight is fun. But I'm myself somewhat tired from the hack and slash type of game. I want more political/intrigue/skill challenge, and far less fights. And even more, I want less of the "kill and loot" routine.

So why do you think those 13, 20, or 30 encounters have to be violent ones?

 

[Hussar]

The only reason that 4 years would come up is if I started using the other definition of campaign where campaign=persistent world.

Normally, I'd say the campaigns I've been involved in (either as a player or a GM) have lasted between 6 to 18 months. That's defining campaign as a series of events linked in some meaningful way to a specific group of characters. Which is how I've almost always seen campaign defined.

It all comes down to how you define the terms. I would say that I ran three separate campaigns in Scarred Lands over the course of four or so years. By the definition of campaign=persistant setting, I ran one campaign over 4 years.

How long do your campaigns last under either definition?

 

[Lanefan]

Now, imagine a game in which the players bring different characters in from time to time, mixing and matching adventuring parties for different adventures, and this keeps going on for years with the only constant being the setting. The timeline more or less advances throughout with the actions of earlier PCs being written into the history for later PCs to know about.

Bingo!

Also throw in the idea of players occasionally joining and leaving and you've got my definition of campaign pretty much bang on.

(long essay warning)

Let's take my last (self-defined) campaign as an example; and you tell me when it stops/starts/continues being the same campaign.

Started with 3 players running 2 PCs each.

7 adventures in, one player left (moved out of town) and we put the game on hold. A year later, 3 more players join coming out of a campaign that had just sunk (one was its DM), and we reboot.

Adventures 1-4 are intended to be something of an adventure path but after adv. 4 they bail completely; adventures 5-11 are another and it was vaguely completed. Adventure 12 is a stand-alone module with very limited connection to the greater story (though I shoe-horned some in after the fact).

So, 5 more adventures, down another player - one of the three who joined - but we're gathering new players like a rolling snowball. I'm up to 7 total, with 2 more knocking on the door...so I split the game. 4 players in one side, 5 in the other, two parties, and away we go. The original 2 players (still each running one of their original PCs along with various replacements for the other) both go in Party B.

4 adventures later for the 'A' group (all stand-alone) and 3 for 'B' (also all stand-alone, and one on a different world with a guest DM) and they re-unite for a 2-session mass adventure as a 31-character party 'C' (DM note: what a nightmare *that* was to run!) that ties off the previously-abandoned story from adventures 1-4. Oh, and party B has another player now, so 5 and 5.

At this point, the players re-organize their PCs into three groups; players and characters swap all over the place. Note that the same 2 original players are still running their same 2 PCs, though with a constantly-changing support cast behind them. A few other long-term 'star' characters are also arising by now.

So, off into the wild again. One party, 'D', goes into a series of stand-alone adventures having little to do with any storyline at all. A second, 'E', goes into a loosely-connected 3-adventure series. And the third, 'F', does one adventure and then disbands; with its characters occasionally drifting into other parties for ages thereafter.

The next big batch of changes comes when 2 PCs get married; their wedding is an excuse for lots of characters to meet - and switch parties. By now, the parties are all loosely allied in a single adventuring Company and have a base of operations - a Company-owned castle.

Both parties go off on adventure paths - one a 4-adventure, the other ends up as 9 but not all in a row - see below. The party on the 4-adventure path reorganizes itself (players come and go, again) then goes out on some stand-alones. And those same 2 PCs are still going...

The next big shake-up comes when by sheer chance just about everyone is at the castle, and it gets attacked. Lots of people switch parties even though one party is in mid-path of a tight series.

After this, it gets messy enough I'm not sure I can describe it here, but there's parties coming and going all over the place for a while including one that intentionally walked into to Niflheim (Hel's realm) and then never came back. But this time, every party except the Niflheim group is acting on or because of the same story line - an invasion of Giants - though from different angles and with different goals. And players and characters continue to come, go, return, etc. throughout.

Eventually, it shakes down to 2 parties each on unrelated adventure paths to finish out. Of the 2 long-standing PCs, one is now dead (though its player is still in the game) and the other has no player but is still active as what we call a QPC, or quasi-player character - it's my SO's, she still lobbed in instructions from time to time.

And then, being mostly out of story ideas for that game and wanting to do a fairly serious rules shakedown, I shut 'er down.

Those two significant characters - Pearl and Throy - ran together for about 20 adventures but never with exactly the same surrounding party more than twice; they then split and ran in separate parties for another 10 and 8 respectively, again with a constantly-morphing group of companions.

So is that all one big campaign? I maintain that it is.

Lan-"783 sessions, 203 party member characters, 64 adventures"-efan

 

[mxyzplk]

I've been running a game for 10 months, a long session every other week (22 sessions in) and the PCs are only 4th level. I prefer it greatly. PCs get to "settle in" with their current skill set and learn to use them better, instead of just using the newest Shiny Of The Week.

Of course, I don't bother with XP and CRs and all that; I'm advancing the characters at an appropriate level for the adventures I have lined up. Same effect, many man-hours less math BS.

 

[Hussar]

Heh, I'll bite.

Bingo!

Also throw in the idea of players occasionally joining and leaving and you've got my definition of campaign pretty much bang on.

(long essay warning)

Let's take my last (self-defined) campaign as an example; and you tell me when it stops/starts/continues being the same campaign.

Started with 3 players running 2 PCs each.

7 adventures in, one player left (moved out of town) and we put the game on hold. A year later, 3 more players join coming out of a campaign that had just sunk (one was its DM), and we reboot.

Reboot as in start again from level 1? New campaign.

Adventures 1-4 are intended to be something of an adventure path but after adv. 4 they bail completely; adventures 5-11 are another and it was vaguely completed. Adventure 12 is a stand-alone module with very limited connection to the greater story (though I shoe-horned some in after the fact).

So, 5 more adventures, down another player - one of the three who joined - but we're gathering new players like a rolling snowball. I'm up to 7 total, with 2 more knocking on the door...so I split the game. 4 players in one side, 5 in the other, two parties, and away we go. The original 2 players (still each running one of their original PCs along with various replacements for the other) both go in Party B.

Party B is a continuing campaign, Party A is a new campaign.

4 adventures later for the 'A' group (all stand-alone) and 3 for 'B' (also all stand-alone, and one on a different world with a guest DM) and they re-unite for a 2-session mass adventure as a 31-character party 'C' (DM note: what a nightmare *that* was to run!) that ties off the previously-abandoned story from adventures 1-4. Oh, and party B has another player now, so 5 and 5.

At this point, the players re-organize their PCs into three groups; players and characters swap all over the place. Note that the same 2 original players are still running their same 2 PCs, though with a constantly-changing support cast behind them. A few other long-term 'star' characters are also arising by now.

So, off into the wild again. One party, 'D', goes into a series of stand-alone adventures having little to do with any storyline at all. A second, 'E', goes into a loosely-connected 3-adventure series. And the third, 'F', does one adventure and then disbands; with its characters occasionally drifting into other parties for ages thereafter.

F's campaign just ended. D is probably in a new campaign since what they're doing has nothign to do with anything that came before and possibly contains no ongoing PC's as well.

The next big batch of changes comes when 2 PCs get married; their wedding is an excuse for lots of characters to meet - and switch parties. By now, the parties are all loosely allied in a single adventuring Company and have a base of operations - a Company-owned castle.

Both parties go off on adventure paths - one a 4-adventure, the other ends up as 9 but not all in a row - see below. The party on the 4-adventure path reorganizes itself (players come and go, again) then goes out on some stand-alones. And those same 2 PCs are still going...

The next big shake-up comes when by sheer chance just about everyone is at the castle, and it gets attacked. Lots of people switch parties even though one party is in mid-path of a tight series.

After this, it gets messy enough I'm not sure I can describe it here, but there's parties coming and going all over the place for a while including one that intentionally walked into to Niflheim (Hel's realm) and then never came back. But this time, every party except the Niflheim group is acting on or because of the same story line - an invasion of Giants - though from different angles and with different goals. And players and characters continue to come, go, return, etc. throughout.

Niflheim's group's campaign just ended.

Eventually, it shakes down to 2 parties each on unrelated adventure paths to finish out. Of the 2 long-standing PCs, one is now dead (though its player is still in the game) and the other has no player but is still active as what we call a QPC, or quasi-player character - it's my SO's, she still lobbed in instructions from time to time.

And then, being mostly out of story ideas for that game and wanting to do a fairly serious rules shakedown, I shut 'er down.

Those two significant characters - Pearl and Throy - ran together for about 20 adventures but never with exactly the same surrounding party more than twice; they then split and ran in separate parties for another 10 and 8 respectively, again with a constantly-morphing group of companions.

So is that all one big campaign? I maintain that it is.

Lan-"783 sessions, 203 party member characters, 64 adventures"-efan

I would say that you had several somewhat related campaigns. Since many of the groups had no connection to any other group, and the events of one campaign have little impact on another campaign, I'd say you had multiple campaigns ongoing in a single setting.

That and you played a HELL of a lot of D&D. Well done you sir.

 

[Lanefan]

Reboot as in start again from level 1? New campaign.

No. the new players brought new PCs into what was left of the original party, in mid-adventure no less, and we carried on from there.

Party B is a continuing campaign, Party A is a new campaign.

Even though both parties contain characters from the pre-split party?

F's campaign just ended. D is probably in a new campaign since what they're doing has nothign to do with anything that came before and possibly contains no ongoing PC's as well.

Guess I wasn't clear enough. *Every* party had ongoing characters from one or more previous parties - except, of course, the very first one.

Niflheim's group's campaign just ended.

Yeah, TPK's (or in this case, TPK except for the two that got out onto some random world and had no way of getting home = permanently retired) will do that.

I would say that you had several somewhat related campaigns. Since many of the groups had no connection to any other group, and the events of one campaign have little impact on another campaign, I'd say you had multiple campaigns ongoing in a single setting.

Ah, but they were all connected to some extent. A reasonable visual analogy is a 2D representation of a strand of DNA - it joins, separates for a while, joins again, separates again, etc.

That and you played a HELL of a lot of D&D. Well done you sir.

Thanks.

If you're a real masochist and want to see more of how this all worked, the logs for this game can be found via the link in my sig below. Once there, click on "Riveria". The "Character Log" shows each character's vitals and career notes; the "Adventure Logs" tell the tale.

Lanefan