d20 Modern Reboot: What Would You Want to See?

[inkpenavenger]

If someone were to reboot d20 Modern, what would you want to see in it?

Would you want to see a 4E-esque overhaul?
A tune-up like Pathfinder?

Any other specifics?
Static Defenses vs. Saving Throws?
Class/Feat/Skill/Talent Tweaks?
Antagonist Construction?
General Mechanical Changes?

I know what I'd like to see, but what about everyone else?

 

[Lord Xtheth]

Star Wars Saga Edition is already out... and done... so my d20 modern changes have been dealt with

But seriously, I'd love to see the SWSE rules in use for the "new" d20 modern. Of cource Gamma world is looking pretty awesome, so that might fill the gap.

 

[delericho]

Basically, I agree. Make it more like SWSE. Don't make it more like 4e (personal preference talking here).

If at all possible, "break the grid" - make the game entirely playable without minis/tokens. (Sure, 4e can, in theory, be played without... but would you really want to? Even 3.5e loses something without. 3e, or the original d20 Modern, seemed to do better without the battlemat.)

 

[Greg K]

Off the top of my head, here are most of the changes that I would want. Some of the things are actual changes, but several are just additions and expansions.

1. Add Stan!'s explanation behind the multiclassing rules from the Modern Player's Companion (The Game Mechanics)

2. Basic Classes:
a. Rework the talents to be more interesting
b. add class defense bonus from initial class
c. add save/defense bonus from initial class (see saving throws)
d. Remove x/day abilities

3. Remove Advanced Classes and make abilities Talents or feats

4. Hit Points
a. add Star Wars Condition Track and 3e Unearthed Arcana Death and Dying (which also removes negative hit points) or
b. Remove Hit Points for True20/Mutants and Masterminds Damage Save

5. Saving Throws:
a. use a single progresssion for all classes with the initial class giving a bonus like D&D 4e
b. Turn saves into Defenses

6. Occupations: add some more occupations

7. Skills: add Unearthed Arcana Extended skill checks or 4e Skill Challenges

8. Feats: remove some of the +2 to two skll feats

9. Healing Surges: add for all characters and trigger by Action Points

10. Action Points: Make Action Points work more like Mutants and Masterminds 2e Hero Points (reroll a d20 and add 10 (if roll was 10 or less), duplicate a feat, etc.). Characters start with one at the beginning of the adventure and get more from complications (see 6 below), GM fiat, good roleplaying/entertaining the other players, etc.

11. Complications: Introduce Mutants and Masterminds 2e style Complications. These are things like rivalries, hunted, secret identity, physical disability, psychological issues (e.g., claustrophobic, extremely patriotic) that the player chooses (w/gm approval). If the situation comes up in play and hinders the character, they get an action point.

12. Combat
a. Rework automatic weapon fire
b. Rework Grappling
c. Reflex Save becomes basis for how hard you are to hit (modified by class bonus and feats)
d. Have armor absorb damage.

13. Martial Arts: Replace with rules from Blood and Fists (RPG Objects)

14. Fx
a. Replace the Magic fx system with Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth (EN Publishing) like Magic System
b. Replace the Psionic fx system with Psychic's Handbook (Green Ronin) psychic power system

15. Add Hot Pursuit (Adamant) style chase rules

16 Give some non-fx based campaign examples like Top Secret (Espionage/Super Spy) , Martial Arts Campaign, Military Campaign

 

[drothgery]

Basically, I agree. Make it more like SWSE. Don't make it more like 4e (personal preference talking here).

Well, there are a few 4e-isms that really ought to show up even so...

Fixed hit points.
Same attack and defense bonus progression for all classes.
You should never, ever, under any circumstances attack with a skill vs. a defense.
4e's 1 square diagonals are no less broken than SWSE's 2 square diagonals, and easier to deal with.

And one lesson from Essentials: lots of pre-requisites are bad. So require a talent, training in a skill, and a feat for another talent is bad.

 

[delericho]

Well, there are a few 4e-isms that really ought to show up even so...

Certainly, there's no harm in adopting good ideas from any source if they're available!

In fact, I would strongly advocate stealing the skill system from Pathfinder, rather than using the one from d20 Modern, SWSE, or 4e.

 

[Zhaleskra]

I'd make Firearms work the way they do in Forbidden Kingdoms. None of this strange obsession with Feats for things that should be a feature of the weapon. You can have those feats for being GOOD with those things. Also, get rid of the "ballistic" damage type. Piercing at supersonic speeds is still piercing.

I'd also get rid of base classes entirely.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Run Modern20.

It's published, actively supported, does modern games extremely well, and has a lot of options to make things grittier or even more over-the-top (as the players desire).

Tons of occupations, starting class matters, zero advanced/prestige classes, useful guns, and a philosophy of "change it if you don't like it; it's your game".

Every time I go to do a modern game and I want to use a d20 system (with hit points) I ask myself what it should do. And all my answers are already done by Modern20.

 

[questing gm]

Tune up like Pathfinder would be just nice.

 

[wingsandsword]

The idea of making it more like SWSE is very good, that's a far better evolution of the d20 ruleset than 4e ever was. Personally, my wishes for a d20 Modern 2.0 would be something like. . .

1. Wound/Vitality or the SWSE condition track (with bonus HP at 1st level). The lowered MDT to being equivalent to a CON score really didn't do it as much as it was supposed to with regards to making PCs more fragile.

2. Increased use of talent trees, ala SWSE. A lot of AdC's, and even PrC's in d20 Modern could be folded into a single talent tree.

3. Elimination of the "D&D in the modern day" assumptions in most of the settings presented (Shadow Stalkers, Urban Arcana). I hated the d20 Modern core rules had reprints of D&D monsters for modern adventuring, like bugbears and illithids, but you had to buy a supplement to get more modern monsters like Grey Aliens, Yeti, Chupacabra ect. Monsters that were both modern and classic fantasy had the same old D&D stats, like Vampires and Zombies. d20 Modern Zombies couldn't be used, with RAW, for a survival horror zombie scenario because they didn't create spawn or infect targets ect., and vampires had the full Dracula-type suite of weaknesses and powers, instead of the vampires depicted in most other modern supernatural settings. Urban Arcana had lots of good classes that had superfluous magic thrown in which made them awkward in no-magic games (Arcane Arranger, Speed Demon come to mind)

4. Elimination of vancian magic. It's a sacred cow in D&D, but that's D&D and this is a modern-day game. More low-key magic, not running down main street throwing fireballs and lightning bolts.

5. Adding the level-based damage bonus from SWSE. Add half your heroic/PC-class level to the damage on all successful attacks.

6. Revision of the wealth system. It was poorly understood and often horribly misapplied by players. Nice in theory, but another system may be better in practice.

7. Elimination of the odd nonlethal damage system, that was often ignored anyway and made it virtually impossible to knock anybody out in unarmed combat through subdual.