I seem to be missing the point on the online CB

[Lord Ernie]

Well, you couldn't login, but I still get this: http://wizards.com/DnD/Error.aspx?aspxerrorpath=/dnd/Default.aspx

For over a week now, I think. (I reported it to CS only Saturday or so, though...)

The rest of the site still works, though...

For the record, do you share your account with any of your players? I've had the same error happen on occasion, usually when I suspect one of my players used my login to check out something in the Compendium.

 

[Imaro]

I never claimed to be particularly bright or competent. Given my limited facilities, managing the characters for alternating campaigns and one-offs is hard. Not as hard as keeping score in bowling or arithmetic, but harder than I like. I would prefer if everyone could just log in and access their characters without all the emailing, plugging in flash drives and fiddling around. Especially since I do a lot of long-distance collaboration in real life so I am trained to expect everything I need and want readily available so-long as I have internet access.

I'm sorry you took my post as insinuating something about your level of brightness or competence... but you were the one who complained about how much of a hassle keeping up with characters was... all I did was state that for me... it wasn't hard or confusing to keep the characters in a folder on my computer, different strokes for different folks I guess.

It will be interesting to see if WotC's servers can handle the load placed on them by numerous logins at the same time (and this has nothing to do with whether the internet is available to you or not), as I definitely suspect there will be a spike in usage on the weekends. If they can it'll be gravy for you, otherwise there won't be anything you can do to retrieve your character or use any of their tools.... except for the MB until it goes online

EDIT: On a side note, I also wonder what the performance of this app will be like during peak times like the weekend, again I hope WotC has accounted for this.

To your second point, I think we are different plans. I got the software for free and pay a monthly fee for access to updates, a Rules Compendium and some online content. You should check it out, at $5.95 per month it is a pretty sweet deal. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/subscription.aspx

Puh-tay-toe, puh-tah-toe... are we really being this pendantic now. If so... unless you can actually create at least 1 character from level 1 to level 30... I would claim what you got for free was a demo version of the CB, the same as you would with a demo version of a videogame... No one I know would claim they got the software for free and paid for an update with a demo version of a videogame... that is getting a limited version of the software and then receiving the full software by purchasing it.

 

[Scribble]

Cool, perhaps I was trying to hard to draw a connection between it and the post of mine that you quoted. Though even in your situation, server outages would be a problem as well.

Sorry you couldn't make the connection... Yes server outages will be annoying.

I couldn't login on Wotc this morning... I'm wondering what will happen when people want to use this *wonderful* online toy and servers are offline... even allmight Blizzard servers go offline, why Wizards think they can handle it?

I'm guessing they will flip out and post angry posts, then when the site comes back up they'll continue on as normal.

This is a good step for them as a company... but I wish they were humble enough to say "we are aware that this may cause some annoyance for some of you guys, but we needed to do it"...

They kind of did in the podcast.

Perhaps that's up to individuals to decide, I think it has in some ways significantly reduced in value, Dragon and Dungeon have been on a general downhill trend, and a rented CB has less value than one you get to keep. On the other hand the content on the compendium constantly increases so it could be seen as always gaining in value.

It's one of those weird states right now I think... For some people it's a significant decline in value... For others it's an increase...

My friend on a Mac is excited.

Another friend of mine is annoyed since he used to do the one month download thing.

I have a yearly subscription, only ever access the CB from locations with internet access, and don't make a ton of characters, so I don't anticipate a huge change in my functioning, but at the same time, now my subscription no longer gets me downloadable content...

But... since I've maintained a yearly subscription, and have until next October for this one to be up... It doesn't really impact me much.

What they REALLY need to do though is start adding to the number of tools they offer pretty quickly to replace that downloadable content.

If they're going to move from a digital content provider to fully a service provider, then give me more services to replace the Downloadable content my subscription once offered.

From things they've said though, I get the feeling it will be offered relatively quickly.

Puh-tay-toe, puh-tah-toe... are we really being this pendantic now. If so... unless you can actually create at least 1 character from level 1 to level 30... I would claim what you got for free was a demo version of the CB, the same as you would with a demo version of a videogame... No one I know would claim they got the software for free and paid for an update with a demo version of a videogame... that is getting a limited version of the software and then receiving the full software by purchasing it.

Really depends on how you look at it. It's not like you had to pay an extra fee to get the CB. Your subscription money went towards getting the downloadable content behind the pay wall. Without that, the CB would be an empty database. (I mean you still have the current DB, but it's less useful now without the constant updates...)

Before they sold you the digital content for a certain fee. Now they charge you a monthly fee for access to that content.

Before they sold a product, now they sell admission.

 

[Imaro]

Sorry you couldn't make the connection... Yes server outages will be annoying.

I'm not sure if you are being snarky or not... so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that I really did miss some connection to my post earlier... so please explain it to me, because as I saw it, I was addressing a different posters stated issues... which were not the same as yours... yet you quoted me and stated a totally different issue. So I figured it was just Scribble stating why he liked an online CB (though I'm still not sure why you quoted me instead of just stating your reason.)... now maybe I'm missing the connection so I'm asking you to explain it... unless there wasn't one and you are being snarky.

Really depends on how you look at it. It's not like you had to pay an extra fee to get the CB. Your subscription money went towards getting the downloadable content behind the pay wall. Without that, the CB would be an empty database. (I mean you still have the current DB, but it's less useful now without the constant updates...)

Before they sold you the digital content for a certain fee. Now they charge you a monthly fee for access to that content.

Before they sold a product, now they sell admission.

So you are agreeing with me... before I bought the software and owned it (and please lets not pretend the necessary data for the software to function is not part of a software package.)... now I rent the software and have no rights to it once WotC decides to no longer offer the service.

 

[renau1g]

What they REALLY need to do though is start adding to the number of tools they offer pretty quickly to replace that downloadable content.

If they're going to move from a digital content provider to fully a service provider, then give me more services to replace the Downloadable content my subscription once offered.

From things they've said though, I get the feeling it will be offered relatively quickly.

This. If we get a working MB and a campaign management tool that would be nice. An integrated encounter builder and dungeon builder is nice too. VTT is a long-term desire of mine as well. These may compensate for the loss of permanence that I had with the "classic" CB.

 

[Scribble]

I'm not sure if you are being snarky or not... so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that I really did miss some connection to my post earlier... so please explain it to me, because as I saw it, I was addressing a different posters stated issues... which were not the same as yours... yet you quoted me and stated a totally different issue. So I figured it was just Scribble stating why he liked an online CB (though I'm still not sure why you quoted me instead of just stating your reason.)... now maybe I'm missing the connection so I'm asking you to explain it... unless there wasn't one and you are being snarky.

Well- I wasn't being snarky, but I don't feel like going back, so we can just move on, or you can go back and try to figure it out if you want- I don't care.

So you are agreeing with me... before I bought the software and owned it (and please lets not pretend the necessary data for the software to function is not part of a software package.)... now I rent the software and have no rights to it once WotC decides to no longer offer the service.

The software functions without the data- just like any database functions without data. It just looses utility with no data. Each month, you downloaded more data, not the program, nor did you ever pay more money to get the program.

So it seems perfectly fine to view it as paying for data, and getting software for free.

And yes... WoTC has moved from a digital content provider (providing downloadable content to use within the CB) to a service that provides access to the full library of D&D content and tools to make using it easier.

They haven't deleted the old CB off your computer, nor have they deleted the info within it, so everything you paid for to this point is still yours.

If you don't want to pay admission to the D&D library from this point on, cancel your subscription, and enjoy what you paid for.

 

[Imaro]

Well- I wasn't being snarky, but I don't feel like going back, so we can just move on, or you can go back and try to figure it out if you want- I don't care.

Ok...If it's not an important enough point for you to take the time to clarify it beyond one-liners... it's not important enough for me to be concerned with.

The software functions without the data- just like any database functions without data. It just looses utility with no data. Each month, you downloaded more data, not the program, nor did you ever pay more money to get the program.

Uhm... what? The CB software doesn't function without the data, the whole point is that the software and data are part and parcel of the same software package. It's akin to saying... a videogame functions without any of the necessary data... it doesn't and just because you can purchase more data (you know like expansions for videogames) doesn't mean the software didn't cost you money when you first bought the full game.

So it seems perfectly fine to view it as paying for data, and getting software for free.

Ok, if you want to view it that way fine... but let's look at how WotC views it... from their FAQ...

Q: I am not a subscriber, how can I get the D&D Character Builder?
A: The application is for D&D Insider subscribers only. A demo version of the application is available to non-subscribers

They clearly make a differentiation between the two "applications" and one being a demo "application" and the other being an "application" for subscribers... no mention of just upgrading data as the difference. Also form the WotC site...

"If you use the 64 bit Vista OS, please read these instructions before downloading. If your computer doesn’t have .NET 3.5 SP1, installing it directly from Microsoft here before running the Character Builder will shorten the installation process. If you have previously been using the Beta, we recommend that you first uninstall it.

Emphasis mine... Why do they call the demo a "Beta" version and suggest uninstalling it before installing the full version... if it's just a data upgrade? Seems to me you are getting more than just added data when you become a subscriber and download the full software. You then pay for upgrades after that initial purchase of the software.

And yes... WoTC has moved from a digital content provider (providing downloadable content to use within the CB) to a service that provides access to the full library of D&D content and tools to make using it easier.

They haven't deleted the old CB off your computer, nor have they deleted the info within it, so everything you paid for to this point is still yours.

If you don't want to pay admission to the D&D library from this point on, cancel your subscription, and enjoy what you paid for.

I'm not sure what the above is suppose to accomplish... I don't think anything you've listed above has been disputed by anyone in this thread, and I'm sure all of us know we can unsubscribe anytime we want... so what was the point of this. People are discussing how they feel about what is being implemented as of Nov. 16th and your statement above seems to be pointless in the context of that.

 

[Scribble]

Ok...If it's not an important enough point for you to take the time to clarify it beyond one-liners... it's not important enough for me to be concerned with.

Right on.

Uhm... what? The CB software doesn't function without the data, the whole point is that the software and data are part and parcel of the same software package. It's akin to saying... a videogame functions without any of the necessary data... it doesn't and just because you can purchase more data (you know like expansions for videogames) doesn't mean the software didn't cost you money when you first bought the full game.

Sure- you don't have the ability to get it without the data, but that doesn't mean the software wouldn't function without said data. It would just have nothing to work with.

Ok, if you want to view it that way fine... but let's look at how WotC views it... from their FAQ...

Q: I am not a subscriber, how can I get the D&D Character Builder?
A: The application is for D&D Insider subscribers only. A demo version of the application is available to non-subscribers[/quote]

Yup, you get the application free when you subscribe to the data.

They clearly make a differentiation between the two "applications" and one being a demo "application" and the other being an "application" for subscribers... no mention of just upgrading data as the difference. Also form the WotC site...

yes- because they provide another free demo version of the software.

Emphasis mine... Why do they call the demo a "Beta" version and suggest uninstalling it before installing the full version... if it's just a data upgrade? Seems to me you are getting more than just added data when you become a subscriber and download the full software. You then pay for upgrades after that initial purchase of the software.

It's not just a data upgrade. You get a free version of the real software to use with the data you are subscribing to get. The free version offered as a demo is a beta version of the other software.


All in all sure- it would be pointless to download just the data, or just the software, and since they don't charge you for the software offering them as separate pieces would be equally pointless, but they are in reality separate pieces.

They COULD for instance sell the CB software separate from the subscription, but they don't. It comes free when you subscribe.

I'm not sure what the above is suppose to accomplish... I don't think anything you've listed above has been disputed by anyone in this thread, and I'm sure all of us know we can unsubscribe anytime we want... so what was the point of this. People are discussing how they feel about what is being implemented as of Nov. 16th and your statement above seems to be pointless in the context of that.

If you feel it is pointless, then ignore it, instead of trying to insult me by calling my comments pointless?

 

[Herschel]

Uhm... what? The CB software doesn't function without the data, the whole point is that the software and data are part and parcel of the same software package. It's akin to saying... a videogame functions without any of the necessary data... it doesn't and just because you can purchase more data (you know like expansions for videogames) doesn't mean the software didn't cost you money when you first bought the full game.

Maybe try looking at it this way: Think of the Character Builder as a car. As a car, they gave you a cheap chassis (demo version) but you needed to buy tires, gas, stereo, oil, maintenance, etc. and need to keep doing so.

Now you will lease the complete, nice car. They add the features, put in the gas, change the oil, rotate the tires, upgrade the whole thing every model year so and you always get to drive a new car so long as you make your payments.

The latter actually gives you better use value for your money and gives the producing company a more consistent revenue stream.

 

[Imaro]

Right on.
Sure- you don't have the ability to get it without the data, but that doesn't mean the software wouldn't function without said data. It would just have nothing to work with.

... You don't have the ability to get it without the data... yet the software is free... and the data isn't.... That's some pretty fuzzy logic.

Yup, you get the application free when you subscribe to the data.



yes- because they provide another free demo version of the software.



It's not just a data upgrade. You get a free version of the real software to use with the data you are subscribing to get. The free version offered as a demo is a beta version of the other software.

Again... ...WHAT??? SO even though I have to pay to receive this software (the full version)... in reality it's free...Wow, just wow, there are some pretty amazing logic gymnastics goingon here. I guess if it really was free there would be something on their website like "Free with subscription to DDI... the CB software... but not the data." ... Really?

All in all sure- it would be pointless to download just the data, or just the software, and since they don't charge you for the software offering them as separate pieces would be equally pointless, but they are in reality separate pieces.

Yeah...ok...so the software is free but the data is not... even though you have to pay to get the full software (that is in actuality free) and basic data but can get a free (diminished)version of the software and data without paying something... Uhm, yeah makes sense...right...OK... not not really.

They COULD for instance sell the CB software separate from the subscription, but they don't. It comes free when you subscribe.

But the data doesn't come free...when you subscribe... got it...

If you feel it is pointless, then ignore it, instead of trying to insult me by calling my comments pointless?

How is my addressing what you posted... not you as a poster in any way insulting you?