D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)

[Barastrondo]

My question would be if the Duke is a figure who's purpose in the narrative is to be an assassination target then why would he ever be anything BUT a minion?

Well, it would depend. In the example I gave, the Duke might not be explicitly an assassination target: he might be someone that the PCs get into a dramatic swashbuckling swordfight with in the middle of his burning tower. The assassination would be an alternate way of dealing with That Kind of Guy, rather than the default.

But if the point of the NPC is to be assassinated, then yeah. Why not make him a minion from the get-go?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, it would depend. In the example I gave, the Duke might not be explicitly an assassination target: he might be someone that the PCs get into a dramatic swashbuckling swordfight with in the middle of his burning tower. The assassination would be an alternate way of dealing with That Kind of Guy, rather than the default.

But if the point of the NPC is to be assassinated, then yeah. Why not make him a minion from the get-go?

Sure, not every possible NPC someone might decide they want to assassinate is going to be appropriately a minion. OTOH the DM is going to be the one arbitrating under what conditions an assassination is feasible. If it isn't the way the story should go then maybe the 'assassintion' IS a more normal combat encounter with SCs related to getting past all the guy's defenses first. Or the DM might simply choose to represent the NPC with a minion for that specific purpose. Many DMs/players are a bit heeby about redrawing NPCs in different ways depending on the situation but it IS an option and one that (particularly at lower levels I'd think) is a viable way to go.

Of course there is also a question of symmetry, but again that shouldn't be a real issue unless the DM wants it to be for whatever reason. In other words assassinating a PC probably shouldn't be a simple thing and I'd venture to guess you'd never want to have that happen with a single attack. Of course PCs probably will get a chance to defend themselves and if not well there is certainly long precedent for DMs just dropping stuff on players like that, lol. So really no such asymmetry is likely to show up in play in a perceivable fashion. At worst the players might get nervous about it happening to them too, which could be fun.

 

[Piratecat]

You'll be amused to know that I just used this discussion in reverse. In my Merchant Prince game this evening, two of the players are being stalked by wererat assassins. One foolishly forgot this when he separated from the group to go pick up rumors at a bar. The wererats tried to ambush him.

I didn't want it to be a normal fight; he wouldn't have had a chance by himself, but (more importantly) there wasn't enough time left in the night to run it. I went with a fast skill challenge instead. He failed the first two (a distracting bluff to escape, and an athletics check attempt at running.) Each failure earned him a lost surge, but a full three failures would have meant dead PC, or worse.

His third roll was endurance, to run despite open bleeding wounds. He made it. He ducked down alleys with a successful streetwise check, used his familiar to aid a bluff check (just barely making it), and finally used diplomacy to summon his friends out of a local bar. The wererats faded back into the shadows.

It was a fun, fast challenge with a lot at stake, and served as a reminder that the assassins were trouble. Thank you, everyone, for the idea.

 

[the Jester]

You'll be amused to know that I just used this discussion in reverse. In my Merchant Prince game this evening, two of the players are being stalked by wererat assassins. One foolishly forgot this when he separated from the group to go pick up rumors at a bar. The wererats tried to ambush him.

I didn't want it to be a normal fight; he wouldn't have had a chance by himself, but (more importantly) there wasn't enough time left in the night to run it. I went with a fast skill challenge instead. He failed the first two (a distracting bluff to escape, and an athletics check attempt at running.) Each failure earned him a lost surge, but a full three failures would have meant dead PC, or worse.

His third roll was endurance, to run despite open bleeding wounds. He made it. He ducked down alleys with a successful streetwise check, used his familiar to aid a bluff check (just barely making it), and finally used diplomacy to summon his friends out of a local bar. The wererats faded back into the shadows.

It was a fun, fast challenge with a lot at stake, and served as a reminder that the assassins were trouble. Thank you, everyone, for the idea.

Awesome. Yoink.

 

[Tamlyn]

Each failure earned him a lost surge, but a full three failures would have meant dead PC, or worse.

The "or worse" intrigues me.

 

[The_Warlock]

The "or worse" intrigues me.

Instant Were-rat mole, comes to mind. (Would that be a metaphysical were-mole?)

 

[Piratecat]

Take seven wizards (male and female, old and young, include wands and staves and orbs and tomes); meld into a hideous flesh-sculpted amalgam so that a wizard torso faces in every direction. Add what's left of Caducity Skirr in their middle, her insane head screaming at a frequency that drives out conscious thought. Sculpt away their legs and seat the monstrosity on a nice, solid Tenser's Floating Disk. Then have it cast multiple spells at once against anyone the Riverlimb's indicate is an enemy.

What do you have?

Well, mechanically, you'd have something that works remarkably like the newly redesigned Monster Vault beholder.

It was the most successful re-skinning to date, and a wonderful fight.

 

[jydog1]

Take seven wizards (male and female, old and young, include wands and staves and orbs and tomes); meld into a hideous flesh-sculpted amalgam so that a wizard torso faces in every direction. Add what's left of Caducity Skirr in their middle, her insane head screaming at a frequency that drives out conscious thought. Sculpt away their legs and seat the monstrosity on a nice, solid Tenser's Floating Disk. Then have it cast multiple spells at once against anyone the Riverlimb's indicate is an enemy.

What do you have?

Well, mechanically, you'd have something that works remarkably like the newly redesigned Monster Vault beholder.

It was the most successful re-skinning to date, and a wonderful fight.

Awesome. I'd pity your party, if I didn't already know them.

 

[Aegeri]

Just out of curiosity, did you change any of the beholders powers or similar? Or just did a straight reskin?

 

[Piratecat]

Just out of curiosity, did you change any of the beholders powers or similar? Or just did a straight reskin?

Two changes. The central eye (aka Caducity's scream) only stopped daily powers, not daily + encounter, and they cleverly used their "do something cool" power to negate even this. Other than that it was straight out of the book.