[Burning THAC0] B2: The Keep on the Borderlands (ooc/setup)

[Mathalus]

Maybe looking at this finished character will help people out. I burned this up using the website I mentioned. (Also, I website let me buy Missing Eye for 1 trait point, but when I looked it up in the book, it was 3. I'm hoping you'll let me keep it since it is so rad). Also I am very willing to take criticism on any of these points, so let me know.


Name: Ferrantos
Concept/Bio: Vengeful Metal Artificer/ The Thyantian Bastard
Lifepaths: Born Noble, Arcane Devotee, Lead to City Dweller, Sorcerer
Age : 21
Stats: Wi: B5, Pe: B4, Po: B4, Fo: B5, Ag: B4, Sp: B4, Speed Mult.: x3.5
Attributes: Ref: B4, Ste: B5, Hes: 5, Hea: B5, MW: B10, Circles: B2, Resources: B0
PTGS: Su: B3 Li: B6 Mi: B7 Se: B8 Tr: B9 Mo: B10
Beliefs:
To kill Master Vide I must create a blade sharp enough to make stone bleed. The first step is working with Vellekhyr to slay monsters for antecedents.
I know that one of these three (players) will wield the avenging blade. I must keep everyone together until I find out whom.
I need money badly. I'll use my gifts to get it and borrow if that fails.
Instincts:
If I am surprised I cast "The Fear!"
I always search corpses for antecedents (enchanting materials).
I always imbue metal objects with my enchanting ability.
Traits: [Dt] Mark of Privilege, [Char] Base Humility, [Dt] Gifted, [Dt] Missing Eye
Skills: Alchemy B3, Calligraphy B2, Enchanting B5, Persuasion B3, Read B3, Sorcery B5, Spear B2, Symbology B2, Write B2
Affiliations: +1D w/ Nobility (Mark of Privelege).
Relationships: Master Artificer Vide (Minor, hateful/rival), Auromos, my Noble Half-Brother (Minor, immediate family)
Gear: Spear (RotM), Plated Leather Armor (RotM), Alchemy Kit, Shoes, Clothes, Paper, Quills and ink, Travelling Gear
Spells: Call of Iron, Cat's Eye, The Fear, Low Speech

 

[engrishonly]

Maybe looking at this finished character will help people out. I burned this up using the website I mentioned. (Also, I website let me buy Missing Eye for 1 trait point, but when I looked it up in the book, it was 3. I'm hoping you'll let me keep it since it is so rad). Also I am very willing to take criticism on any of these points, so let me know.

I'll have to look up the trait. It could just be as a funky character trait temporarily until we get time for a vote. As I recall, there were some penalties involved with being one-eyed... can't remember any benefits. I'll check it out, anyway.

Also, I don't know if people without the Character Burner are allowed access to online burning sites... Hopefully I can be clear enough to get it all wrapped up for our Paladin comrade.

Anyway, onto the scathing criticism!

Name: Ferrantos
Concept/Bio: Vengeful Metal Artificer/ The Thyantian Bastard

Beliefs:
To kill Master Vide I must create a blade sharp enough to make stone bleed. The first step is working with Vellekhyr to slay monsters for antecedents.
I know that one of these three (players) will wield the avenging blade. I must keep everyone together until I find out whom.
I need money badly. I'll use my gifts to get it and borrow if that fails.

Belief 1... I'm not sure about this. The first half is cool, as is the second half, but they kind of don't fit well enough for my tastes. I liked the idea that Ferrantos was going to the Caves of Chaos to find something. Why not name it here? A general search for materials is harder for me to work with (it could be anything & it could be nothing). Name the thing, and as we go along, figure out "Is this the thing I seek?" I can discuss it with you further if you want ideas for the thing. And I think the relationship with Vellekhyr is better in a separate slot.
Belief 2... I'm not sure I like this one at this time. It's occupying a slot & it doesn't quite fit since there's no blade at the moment, so it's kind of general & might not help. Keep this idea in your back pocket when the blade is closer to becoming reality.
Belief 3... I wish it said more about Ferrantos. I wish it were more of an ethical/philosophical statement with actions/goals tied to it. At this point, it's closer to Instinct than Belief, IMO.

Anyway, that's my Belief feedback. I get kinda picky with these because it's how you tell me what you want. I'm always asking for more!

Instincts:
If I am surprised I cast "The Fear!"
I always search corpses for antecedents (enchanting materials).
I always imbue metal objects with my enchanting ability.

Instinct 1 is solid & will serve us well.
Instinct 2 is okay... I'm just not sold on antecedents as a general concept right now.
Instinct 3 seems like the typical skill-based instinct, so no real comment from me.

You don't have the typical "awkward social situation" Insinct, like "Never let them forget I am Noble born".

If you're okay with these, then cool.

Otherwise, 1 & 3 are cool. The one to think about is the antecedents thing. I think the whole line of the antecedents story needs tightening, IMO. It will work, but I wish it were more specific.

Relationships: Master Artificer Vide (Minor, hateful/rival), Auromos, my Noble Half-Brother (Minor, immediate family)

Alrighty. We'll see how the others generate their Relationships.

I'd like someone to have a major NPC that I can throw into the situation, but it's not important that anyone do so.

 

[Mathalus]

Thanks for all the great advice! Okay, I have rewritten some of my beliefs and instincts and come up with a few extra. Hopefully you can help me pick out the best of them so I end up with three of each. And other players, please feel free to chime in to let us know which ones you think would be the most/least fun to play with.

Potential Beliefs
To kill Master Vide I must create a blade sharp enough to make a stone bleed. I need to find a monster with a sharp mind to use as an antecedent.
Vellekhyr always protects me. I will use my magic to protect him.
I need money badly. Now that I’m back in Karameikos, I’ll demand some from my noble half-brother Auromos.
It is right to lie to liars, steal from thieves, and kill murderers.
To become a great artificer, I must first improve my alchemical skill for collecting antecedents.



Potential Instincts
If I am surprised I cast "The Fear!"
I always search corpses for antecedents (enchanting materials).
I always practice my ability by imbuing my allies’ weapons.
If someone uses religion to justify their actions around me, I scoff.
I sleep deeply after my nightly smoking-knife trances.
If I am bored during a conversation I obscenely clean my eye-hole.

 

[engrishonly]

Cool. I'm going to number them to facilitate discussion...

Thanks for all the great advice! Okay, I have rewritten some of my beliefs and instincts and come up with a few extra. Hopefully you can help me pick out the best of them so I end up with three of each. And other players, please feel free to chime in to let us know which ones you think would be the most/least fun to play with.

Potential Beliefs
1) To kill Master Vide I must create a blade sharp enough to make a stone bleed. I need to find a monster with a sharp mind to use as an antecedent.

2) Vellekhyr always protects me. I will use my magic to protect him.

3) I need money badly. Now that I’m back in Karameikos, I’ll demand some from my noble half-brother Auromos.

4) It is right to lie to liars, steal from thieves, and kill murderers.

5) To become a great artificer, I must first improve my alchemical skill for collecting antecedents.

1) Much nicer! Specificity helps me a lot. Questing for specifics is much better for me. I can already see the potential sources for this.

2) It's okay. Not enough conflict in it. I think it's necessary to have a Belief about another character, or about the party. This might require more info about Vellekhyr. For instance, does the Elf approve of Ferrantos' harvesting of brains & parts from the slain?

3) Love this one. If the half-brother Auromos had a bigger role in the setting/situation, then it would be even cooler. As he is, (a minor NPC), he could be a Knight, stationed at the Keep.

4) Kind of works, and could be a solid 3rd Belief. If it ties to the situation, or a relationship, then it would be stronger. It's also a little broad. Keep it razor sharp, "I will lie under these circumstances" or "I will steal under these conditions". "Noblemen took my heritage, so I will never willingly speak truth to nobles", ferinstance. Then the Arthas triggers will be clear, and I can't ignore the thing that is happening.

5) Is kind of nebulous for my tastes, and the skill thing maybe works better in Instincts.

Potential Instincts[/FONT]
1) If I am surprised I cast "The Fear!"

2) I always search corpses for antecedents (enchanting materials).

3) I always practice my ability by imbuing my allies’ weapons.

4) If someone uses religion to justify their actions around me, I scoff.

5) I sleep deeply after my nightly smoking-knife trances.

6) If I am bored during a conversation I obscenely clean my eye-hole.

1) Solid.

2) So Ferrantos needs the brains of a sharp enemy? It's cool, but I think the Belief is enough. This might handcuff you with too much specificity (only when you have a corpse of an enemy).

3) It can work. I think it might help to have a temporal trigger. "Before the evening meal" or "When seated in front of a fire" or something.

4) Great. This works well in a group with religious tendencies.

5) Sleep is cool, but only if you think it's a problematic thing.

6) I like #4 better.

Using the advice from the AdBu, #1 & #3 & #4 are the types of things you should have.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I think I've got this right; thoughts appreciated.
* Uncertain about spending general points
* Field dressing and lockpick both need unaffordable tools; don't remember how tools work.
* I'm prepared to swich to a healing skill if no one else has one (part of char concept, but for now, I've just gone with thiefy things: strealthy could be streetwise or lockpick if it's possible to do something with no tools).
*Does it make sense to simply open Observation? I think so: but the rules aren't clear to me -- cf. Stealthy, where if you don't have Obs, you use double the obstacle against perception. Since Most people will have a perception twice their observation, I'm a bit unclear on the benefit.
*Another possibility is to rebalance Will and Perception (?) 5/3.

Sorry about silly questions -- I guess it's been a while.
Once this is sorted, I'll write a few paragraphs of backstory.


Constance

Lifepaths: Born Villager, Serving Wench, Lead to Religious, Pardoner
Age : 19
Stats: Wi: B4, Pe: B4, Po: B3, Fo: B3, Ag: B6, Sp: B4
Attributes: Ref: B4, Ste: B3, Hea: B3, MW: B9
Circles: B2, Resources: B1

Beliefs: People will grant favours to earn my forgiveness.
The more people fear, the more they need me.

Instincts: Always distrust religious authority.
Never start with violence.

Traits: [Char] Drop Dead Gorgeous, [Dt] Pardoner, [C-o] Aura of Innocence, [Char] Tidy Aspect (*alt: Thick skinned).

Skills: Persuasion B3, Falsehood B3, Intimidation B2, Soothing Platitudes B2, Customerwise B2, Sleight of Hand B4, Boxing B3, Observation B2, Stealthy B2

Reputation: 1D with Layfolk (infamous to church, +1 Ob) (from Pardoner)
Affiliations: 1D Forgiven adventurers (many are plagued by the violence of the keep, and have sought absolution for their killing of sentient humanoids; I’ve helped them all) (10 pts)
Relationships: My sister, Vanity, is a serving wench at the Keep. She hates me. (1 pt).
Gear: Shoes, Travelling gear, Finery (7pts)
Property: Small Cottage (3 pts)

 

[engrishonly]

I think I've got this right; thoughts appreciated.
* Uncertain about spending general points
* Field dressing and lockpick both need unaffordable tools; don't remember how tools work.
* I'm prepared to swich to a healing skill if no one else has one (part of char concept, but for now, I've just gone with thiefy things: strealthy could be streetwise or lockpick if it's possible to do something with no tools).
*Does it make sense to simply open Observation? I think so: but the rules aren't clear to me -- cf. Stealthy, where if you don't have Obs, you use double the obstacle against perception. Since Most people will have a perception twice their observation, I'm a bit unclear on the benefit.
*Another possibility is to rebalance Will and Perception (?) 5/3.

General skill points... Mannish characters have the whole list of them to pick from, starting on page 226 or so. You could always augment your lifepath skills, or open new ones. It's up to you.

If the skill says Tools: Yes, then you need the tools... otherwise, it's a "double obstacle penalty". So, yes, you could pick a lock with a hair pin, or bind someone's wounds with a torn piece of cloth, but it's tougher to do so.

Field Dressing is cool. You can always try to Circle up a Healer via your Religious setting, for instance. You don't specifically need a Healer-type skill.

Observation... let's assume someone makes 2 successes with Stealthy, so it's a base Obs 2 for a versus test. Probability-wise, it's harder to pass a Obs 4 Stealthy versus test with a B4 Perception than to use B2 Observation against Obs 2 Stealthy. (Throw in a B5 Perception, translating into a B2 Observation at opening, it's a little better odds, but I'd still take B2 versus Obs 2)

People typically try to stack Will since it's harder to test. I'm not going to object to it if you want to change Will & Perception around some.

...

IMO, the only backstory anyone needs is what you can express through relationships, reputations, and affiliations. Everything else would be "color", until you're able to transform it via circles or something.
This cuts down my paperwork

It's useful to know where the character is coming from, however.

Constance

Lifepaths: Born Villager, Serving Wench, Lead to Religious, Pardoner
Age : 19
Stats: Wi: B4, Pe: B4, Po: B3, Fo: B3, Ag: B6, Sp: B4
Attributes: Ref: B4, Ste: B3, Hea: B3, MW: B9
Circles: B2, Resources: B1

Beliefs: People will grant favours to earn my forgiveness.
The more people fear, the more they need me.

Instincts: Always distrust religious authority.
Never start with violence.

Traits: [Char] Drop Dead Gorgeous, [Dt] Pardoner, [C-o] Aura of Innocence, [Char] Tidy Aspect (*alt: Thick skinned).

Beliefs...
I'm not sure I like the first one. It's a statement of the obvious.

I like the second one... if you're going to push it some more. "The more people fear, the more they need me. I will spread fear of damnation wherever I go."

Going by the Belief formula, I want a Belief tied into the Situation... which means, explain why Constance wants to go to the Keep & explore the Caves of Chaos (see the Gary Gygax introduction above).

I also want a Belief about another player character... but maybe you will need to see what else comes to the table? OR, you could help out HandofMystara by writing something about the Paladin. (Assuming you've already met so we don't need to go through the "Okay, you're in a tavern, have at it" scene )

Instincts...
Always distrust isn't bad... I think I can work with it.

Never start with violence... it's kind of halfway there, but we can see how it goes.

You might want to also write a skill-based Instinct. For instance "Always palm small objects (sleight of hand) when nobody is looking, no matter who owns the item"... it's pretty crudely written, but it illustrates the point.

Skills: Persuasion B3, Falsehood B3, Intimidation B2, Soothing Platitudes B2, Customerwise B2, Sleight of Hand B4, Boxing B3, Observation B2, Stealthy B2

Reputation: 1D with Layfolk (infamous to church, +1 Ob) (from Pardoner)
Affiliations: 1D Forgiven adventurers (many are plagued by the violence of the keep, and have sought absolution for their killing of sentient humanoids; I’ve helped them all) (10 pts)
Relationships: My sister, Vanity, is a serving wench at the Keep. She hates me. (1 pt).
Gear: Shoes, Travelling gear, Finery (7pts)
Property: Small Cottage (3 pts)

Good to see that the relationship & affiliation are tied into the Keep. Gives me plenty to work with & think about.

The Forgiven adventurers idea is pretty interesting... I'll have to give it some thought.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I'll make a few comments:

1. I'll not take healing if toolkit is required.
2. I'll open observation, and keep Pill/Perc as is (ease if nothing else), unless someone thinks I should pump will.
3. Beliefs #1: it can go
4. Beliefs #2: This was me trying to explain why I'm at the keep -- telling stories, maybe letting critters escape. If you are fine with me actively sowing terror, that's fine too, but it wasn't what I was aiming at; I was trying to be where stories of fear would develop
5. Beliefs #3: (subject to approval!) -- Men are fools, swayed by a pretty face.
6. Instincts: let's get rid of violence. Perhaps: "When the fighting starts, hide."
7. Instincts #2: I like the sleight of hand idea; thanks. "I take unattended small items."
8. Glad you like the forgiven adventurers; I was trying to tie everything to the keep (even the cottage? could be a small place within the walls (willed to me rather than to Vanity?), or somewhere nearby.
9. In terms of Wises; is there a humanoids-wise? or are they separate (goblinwise, koboldwise, etc.)? An alternative to the adventurers is if some of the local non-human populations have been coming to Constance for forgiveness.

 

[engrishonly]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I'll make a few comments:

1. I'll not take healing if toolkit is required.
2. I'll open observation, and keep Pill/Perc as is (ease if nothing else), unless someone thinks I should pump will.
3. Beliefs #1: it can go
4. Beliefs #2: This was me trying to explain why I'm at the keep -- telling stories, maybe letting critters escape. If you are fine with me actively sowing terror, that's fine too, but it wasn't what I was aiming at; I was trying to be where stories of fear would develop
5. Beliefs #3: (subject to approval!) -- Men are fools, swayed by a pretty face.
6. Instincts: let's get rid of violence. Perhaps: "When the fighting starts, hide."
7. Instincts #2: I like the sleight of hand idea; thanks. "I take unattended small items."
8. Glad you like the forgiven adventurers; I was trying to tie everything to the keep (even the cottage? could be a small place within the walls (willed to me rather than to Vanity?), or somewhere nearby.
9. In terms of Wises; is there a humanoids-wise? or are they separate (goblinwise, koboldwise, etc.)? An alternative to the adventurers is if some of the local non-human populations have been coming to Constance for forgiveness.

1. Okay. Someone should take Field Dressing, I think, just in case. Opening it is probably enough... but that's something the Paladin could do as well.

4. I don't really like the terror thing for that character idea (although it would be cool for some other character). I think the best thing is to get back to your Concept, and then see what Constance says to you.

5. I like it.

6. Perfect!

7. Cool.

8. The Keep & its environs seems like a cool idea for the small cottage. I like that. It could be a point of contention with Vanity.

9. Okay... well, my newfangled Burning Wheel version of Kobolds is this: Halflings use the Field Roden paths, and Kobolds are Below/Society... basically, Kobolds are reimagined to be a Gollum-like race of anti-Halflings by reinterpreting the Roden race from the Monster Burner. If you want to explore that, then Kobold-wise would be cool, and then Kobolds who want to return to innocence can come in from the Caves & go to Constance for redemption.

 

[Mathalus]

It might be useful if someone opened Field Dressing. It doesn't have to be you, but it will be some rough times if we get wounded and have to wrap ourselves up with only Beginner's Luck.

I think you may have left a specific skill point or two on the table when you burned up your character. I could be wrong. Anyway, maybe you could open up Doctrine or Falsehood (same thing, amIright?)

Do you want to know my half-brother Auromos? He's a knight at the keep. Maybe he's guilty about something and has confessed it to you?

Or do you have feelings one way or the other about elves? To make another tie in to our elven ranger friend.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Constance, take 2

Constance

Lifepaths: Born Villager, Serving Wench, Lead to Religious, Pardoner
Age : 19
Stats: Wi: B4, Pe: B4, Po: B3, Fo: B3, Ag: B6, Sp: B4
Attributes: Ref: B4, Ste: B3, Hea: B3, MW: B9
Circles: B2, Resources: B1

Beliefs: The more people fear the wild, the more they need me.
I can pardon those without Faith (non-humans).
Men are fools, swayed by a pretty face.

Instincts: Always distrust religious authority.
When fighting starts, hide.
I take unattended small items.

Traits: [Char] Drop Dead Gorgeous, [Dt] Pardoner, [C-o] Aura of Innocence, [Char] Tidy Aspect.

Skills: Persuasion B3, Falsehood B3, Intimidation B2, Soothing Platitudes B2, Customerwise B2, Sleight of Hand B4, Boxing B3, Observation B2, Herbalism B2

Reputation: 1D with Layfolk (infamous to church, +1 Ob) (from Pardoner)
Affiliations: 1D Forgiven adventurers (many are plagued by the violence of the keep, and have sought absolution for their killing of sentient humanoids; I’ve helped them all) (10 pts)
Relationships: My sister, Vanity, is a serving wench at the Keep. She hates me. (1 pt).
Gear: Shoes, Travelling gear, Finery (7pts)
Property: Small Cottage (3 pts)

Notes:
1. I took herbalism as a healing skill, dropped stealth. Still no tools.
2. Kobold stuff is cool, but maybe that's something I can work towards (building a reputation among other races). I think the DnD base polytheism might mean that Pardoners do not represent any one divinity, but have (say) a special mark that signals an agreed-on authority from the pantheon (or so the story goes)... and that's a new belief, isn't it?
3: @ Mathalus: Falsehood already opened. I was choosing to avoid doctrine specifically, because of 2 above, but this could change easily. I think all 9 points are spent though (six skills opened, bumps to Pers. Fals, and SoH; gen skills in Boxing, Field dress, and obs
4. I wasn't buying more relationships because I wanted the points in property and affiliations to get the resources at B1

Thanks for the help. Further thoughts appreciated.