Klaus
First Post
IMHO, I see the Runepriest as a non-Eberron answer to the Artificer. Part of this comes from the 3e fluff of the Rune Magic and Runecaster PrClass in Races of Stone.
Runepriests
- Thread starter Klaus
- Start date
IMHO, I see the Runepriest as a non-Eberron answer to the Artificer. Part of this comes from the 3e fluff of the Rune Magic and Runecaster PrClass in Races of Stone.
UnknownAtThisTime
First Post
[MENTION=2067]Kamikaze Midget[/MENTION] :
I think there is a lot of "viloent agreement" in this thread. Your post better states my point than my own did. Even still, since the RP exists, I have no problem with him being played, even though I think he could have just as easily been a fluffed cleric.
To be fair, and to Klaus point originially (and mine), the notion of a Dwarf Runepriest is pretty distinct from a "Plate Mail Cleric". There is this worldly connection that does not exist with a "Cleric", but could be put there by the player himself.
And here we are again, in vilent agreement. RAWR!
I think there is a lot of "viloent agreement" in this thread. Your post better states my point than my own did. Even still, since the RP exists, I have no problem with him being played, even though I think he could have just as easily been a fluffed cleric.
To be fair, and to Klaus point originially (and mine), the notion of a Dwarf Runepriest is pretty distinct from a "Plate Mail Cleric". There is this worldly connection that does not exist with a "Cleric", but could be put there by the player himself.
And here we are again, in vilent agreement. RAWR!
Mapache
Explorer
I read them pretty differently. Clerics are templars from medieval Christendom. They are holy because their god speaks to them and infuses them with divine power. Runepriests are Norse shamans. They don't really worship gods but rather seek to emulate them. They have power because they hung themselves from a tree for three days to learn the secrets of writing. Note that unlike Clerics, Runepriests don't have to pick a deity—in fact, the word "deity" doesn't even appear anywhere in the class description for Runepriests (as opposed to fifteen times in the description for Clerics).
the Jester
Legend
When the PH3 came out, I was pretty dubious about runepriests. When I read them, I was like, "Wow, that's actually pretty cool."
Awesome, I hadn't noticed that.
I love the idea of seeking to emulate the gods rather than worshiping or placating them.
Awesome, I hadn't noticed that.
I love the idea of seeking to emulate the gods rather than worshiping or placating them.
This reminds of me Roger Zelazney's series set in Amber. In it the mutliverse of realities are merely shadows of the true existence, at the center of which is a symbol cut by the first lord of amber (god?). I can see a Rune Priest searching for this perfect rune.
Also, Roger Zelazny based his second amber series on some role playing experiences. He supposedly used the game based on the first series. The game is quite awesome for pure role playing, btw.
This quote from him captures the spirit of GMing.
"Occasionally, there arises a writing situation where you see an alternative to what you are doing, a mad, wild gamble of a way for handling something, which may leave you looking stupid, ridiculous or brilliant -you just don't know which. You can play it safe there, too, and proceed along the route you'd mapped out for yourself. Or you can trust your personal demon who delivered that crazy idea in the first place.
Trust your demon."
— Roger Zelazny
Also, Roger Zelazny based his second amber series on some role playing experiences. He supposedly used the game based on the first series. The game is quite awesome for pure role playing, btw.
This quote from him captures the spirit of GMing.
"Occasionally, there arises a writing situation where you see an alternative to what you are doing, a mad, wild gamble of a way for handling something, which may leave you looking stupid, ridiculous or brilliant -you just don't know which. You can play it safe there, too, and proceed along the route you'd mapped out for yourself. Or you can trust your personal demon who delivered that crazy idea in the first place.
Trust your demon."
— Roger Zelazny
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
As the player of the Runepriest in Tyrlaan's game, that was a gratifying blurb to come across.
We're heroic, and using inherent bonuses so take what I say through that filter. We're a two-defender, two-striker, and runepriest group. (Though one of the defenders is nearing striker-level damage.)
I'm really enjoying the runepriest. I wish there were more options for it. I find that my lower-than-average healing is made up for the fact that I can help end the combats quicker.
The flexibility of runepriests having two options is true but incomplete. First, which runestate when I end my turn makes a huge difference, often limiting my options on which power to use. I've found that with my group I 90% of the time want to give offensive buffs instead of defensive. On the other hand, my healing is (a) a great buff and (b) a minor action way to change runestate, so I'll trot it out differently than when I've played other leaders (bard, warlord & cleric).
The rune feats stink on ice - really, since you need so many before they are useful the opportunity costs get to you. Runepriests need to hit to add in a lot of buffs, and as a defiant word the only +3 proficiency weapon I had was dagger. Poof, there's a feat. I need to be in melee, and have the least HP in the group. There's a feat for that. (Wrathful have con secondary and that helps that.) I want to be missed to trigger defiant word, more feats.
But don't get me wrong - the runepriest hands out serious buffs (and some debuffs), and usually to multiple allies. I did up cards for powers on specifics to hand to players, and have standing cards for my runestates and powers that stick around that aren't linked to a character (zones, etc.).
Runepriests have their own play niche. Heavy buff, usually to multiple allies. Some debuff. Some healing. Not big on "chessmaster" tactical moves. Constant aura to help buff. Flexibility in each at-will & encounter power, with the limitation of being aware of what runestate to end in.
Various bonuses are fiddly and need to have a way that works with your group. Desperately needs power and feat support. I haven't played a strength cleric, but nature of the powers and general feel is different than the cleric I have played. If essentials was out a year earlier could this have been a cleric build? Possibly, but it's really got enough of it's own flavor that it would be hard to fit in. Definitely plays very different than the warlord, which is the only other melee leader I've run.
I always feel like the runepriest pulls his weight, and makes a difference in every combat. Part of that is having a group that makes good use of the buffs he gives out, but that's true for any leader.
I'm in a campaign where I play a goliath hybrid runepriest|barbarian. My wife plays a goliath warpriest. She was a Str cleric but we changed it when HotFL came out. The only real problem I have with the class is lack of solid feat support. I also find that in most games I play in I have a really difficult time getting people to stay adjacent to me, regardless of what bonuses I am offering. It would be nice if the powers extended to close burst 3.
I really like the flavor though and I don't mind the juggling the bonuses. I am moving up into paragon tier with it next game and I plan on starting to use cards or tents to display bonuses.
What I like about the Runepriest is how much they kick ass. I'm playing a Goliath Runepriest at mid heroic, and if I keep track of the damage I do plus the damage I make everyone else in the party do, it's very satisfactory. I like being in the front lines, I like having options for bursts and blasts, I like the durability (though that's possibly more from being a Goliath than anything else).
What would I like to see? Perhaps a bit more mobility enhancement, allowing allies to move or shift around would be nice. I know there is a level 10 one to slide an ally, but I don't like giving up my own movement. For self mobility I grabbed Skill Power Mighty Sprint which is great. I don't intend to ever take a Rune feat. There are far more important feats that let me do good stuff *now* rather than mediocre stuff 8 levels down the road.
The other thing I'd like to see is a more runepriest oriented expertise feat. Bludgeon Expertise is kind of wasted, and Master at Arms is all right, but doesn't really come into play all that much. I think something like Rune Weapon Expertise (req: Runepriest, Runic Artistry) that maybe increases damage dealt by Runic Artistry by +1/2/3 would be interesting. Probably not going to come into play as much as light blade combat advantage or spear charge, but at least it wouldn't be wasted like Bludgeon Expertise.
One weakness I'm discovering is a lack of ways to grant saves. Maybe a feat that lets rune of mending also grant a save, or maybe a couple encounter attack power options or utility power options that grant a save would be nice so the choice is there.
As a Str/Con character I also felt a bit weak in the skill department, but I grabbed Forest Warden background for nature and perception, and Battle Awareness Fighter Multiclass for an extra skill. Maybe a feat or power to shore up off stat skills like Arcana, History, Religion, and/or Thievery would be interesting. Perhaps a set of two for one feats, +2 Arcana and access to a limited set of Rituals, or +2 History and a history skill power, or +2 religion and +2/4/6 healing (or saving throw) with Rune of Mending, or +2 thievery and a thievery skill power. Or a flexible utility power like Rune of Recall which gives a power bonus to Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion check.
Runepriest is a great second leader for a party of 6, and not bad as the only leader in a party of 4 or 5. I would love to see more tools for its secondary striker role, not necessarily all for damage (though that's certainly nice), but also for mobility (shifting, teleporting, etc).
What would I like to see? Perhaps a bit more mobility enhancement, allowing allies to move or shift around would be nice. I know there is a level 10 one to slide an ally, but I don't like giving up my own movement. For self mobility I grabbed Skill Power Mighty Sprint which is great. I don't intend to ever take a Rune feat. There are far more important feats that let me do good stuff *now* rather than mediocre stuff 8 levels down the road.
The other thing I'd like to see is a more runepriest oriented expertise feat. Bludgeon Expertise is kind of wasted, and Master at Arms is all right, but doesn't really come into play all that much. I think something like Rune Weapon Expertise (req: Runepriest, Runic Artistry) that maybe increases damage dealt by Runic Artistry by +1/2/3 would be interesting. Probably not going to come into play as much as light blade combat advantage or spear charge, but at least it wouldn't be wasted like Bludgeon Expertise.
One weakness I'm discovering is a lack of ways to grant saves. Maybe a feat that lets rune of mending also grant a save, or maybe a couple encounter attack power options or utility power options that grant a save would be nice so the choice is there.
As a Str/Con character I also felt a bit weak in the skill department, but I grabbed Forest Warden background for nature and perception, and Battle Awareness Fighter Multiclass for an extra skill. Maybe a feat or power to shore up off stat skills like Arcana, History, Religion, and/or Thievery would be interesting. Perhaps a set of two for one feats, +2 Arcana and access to a limited set of Rituals, or +2 History and a history skill power, or +2 religion and +2/4/6 healing (or saving throw) with Rune of Mending, or +2 thievery and a thievery skill power. Or a flexible utility power like Rune of Recall which gives a power bonus to Arcana, History, Nature, or Religion check.
Runepriest is a great second leader for a party of 6, and not bad as the only leader in a party of 4 or 5. I would love to see more tools for its secondary striker role, not necessarily all for damage (though that's certainly nice), but also for mobility (shifting, teleporting, etc).
The Runepriest's entry in the compendium should read:
A great thematic class, embarrassed mechanically at every level by every other Leader class.
Runepriests make Artificers look stunning.
Build a Warpriest (from our new evergreen Essentials books now in a store near you; while there, check out D&D Encounters!) and pretend that it is a Runepriest covered in Arcane/Primal/Divine Runes.
Runepriests have access to one Channel Divinity Feat: Sadness. It has no in game effect, just allows you to realize how awful this class is compared to what it could be. Using this Channel Divinity in the same party as a Warpriest doubles its effects.
A great thematic class, embarrassed mechanically at every level by every other Leader class.
Runepriests make Artificers look stunning.
Build a Warpriest (from our new evergreen Essentials books now in a store near you; while there, check out D&D Encounters!) and pretend that it is a Runepriest covered in Arcane/Primal/Divine Runes.
Runepriests have access to one Channel Divinity Feat: Sadness. It has no in game effect, just allows you to realize how awful this class is compared to what it could be. Using this Channel Divinity in the same party as a Warpriest doubles its effects.
Dungeoneer
First Post
Personally I think that if people aren't playing a class it's flavor that's to blame more than mechanics. Mechanics don't stop someone from picking a class in the first place; they pick it, level a few times and then realize they're not having fun and want to roll something different. But you don't see tons of people on the forums begging for better feats for their Runepriests. That's because they don't roll them up in the first place and never have a chance to run into wonky mechanics. You gotta look at the flavor first.
So, it's a guy who is really into deciphering runes. Okay, conceptually their seems like there's a space for that. But then why is he divine? The concept screams arcane to me.
Some posters here have said that the Runepriest reminds them of this or that fantasy trope. And that's cool. But it doesn't remind me of anything, and I bet you this is true for most people. Guy with a hammer + runes + he's a priest + defensive and offensive bonuses = ???. It doesn't add up to anything for me.
If you had to pitch the Runepriest to me in one sentence (and not too long of a sentence at that), what would you say? I'd be hard pressed to come up with one.
Contrast this with another divine class that is new to 4e, the Avenger. It's got a two word pitch: divine assassin. Sold! And better yet, the mechanics back that concept up in a very nice way.
The Runepriest lacks a clearly articulated hook. It doesn't reflect a fantasy trope most players are familiar with. So whether the mechanics are good or bad, most people aren't going to take a second look at them.
So, it's a guy who is really into deciphering runes. Okay, conceptually their seems like there's a space for that. But then why is he divine? The concept screams arcane to me.
Some posters here have said that the Runepriest reminds them of this or that fantasy trope. And that's cool. But it doesn't remind me of anything, and I bet you this is true for most people. Guy with a hammer + runes + he's a priest + defensive and offensive bonuses = ???. It doesn't add up to anything for me.
If you had to pitch the Runepriest to me in one sentence (and not too long of a sentence at that), what would you say? I'd be hard pressed to come up with one.
Contrast this with another divine class that is new to 4e, the Avenger. It's got a two word pitch: divine assassin. Sold! And better yet, the mechanics back that concept up in a very nice way.
The Runepriest lacks a clearly articulated hook. It doesn't reflect a fantasy trope most players are familiar with. So whether the mechanics are good or bad, most people aren't going to take a second look at them.
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