How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?

[Jeff Wilder]

Harry Potter is a fun example

Of what? (Serious question. I may have missed something.) All the "PCs" in HP are wizards.

BTW, regarding an earlier comment, magic in HP does require wands (as far as I can tell, even the most skilled magickers need them), but it's not slow. Even a death curse is simply two words. Other factors can impact how quickly some wizards or witches cast spells -- or even "if," as doing so silently is semi-advanced -- but those factors aren't inherent in the magic itself.

(Off on a bigger tangent, if I were doing a HP RPG, I'd make "being cool under fire" a huge part of the magic system. It's definitely something that balances out other factors (like knowledge of spells or depth of emotion). Of course, I'd make "being cool under fire" a huge part of any RPG that heavily uses tools of instant death, like, say, guns. Even CP2020's "Cool" attribute was weak sauce.)

 

[WizarDru]

Not in all possible ways. Give me an AK-47 and I'll put a startle in a few of those guys as they wave their wands around and furrow their brows. In Harry Potter, spells are awesome, but not necessarily easy. Magic is often slow, definitely difficult to repeat.

Just so. All humans in the wizarding world can cast magic, but they're still human. Voldemort is dangerous because he's no longer actually human and has taken years of preparation to make himself that way. High-level Wizards like Dumbledore have decades of experience and accrued personal protections, but the wizard on the street does not. Notice how easily characters are stymied by things like werewolves and other magical creatures. Simple magic is easy in Harry Potter, but powerful magic either requires lots of practice and training, expensive components or lots of time.

It's also worth noting that in the world of Harry Potter, magic items are much more common and depended upon. Skilled craftsman like Fred and George make all manner of items with only a small amount of capital and plenty of people gain access to powerful magic. Even the Weasleys, who are a large low income family, manage to possess items like magic death-monitor clocks and send howlers.

Basically, item protection is the best defense in the wizarding world. Unprepared wizards are incredibly vulnerable, and most offensive magic works more like a gun than anything else.

 

[TanisFrey]

Of what? (Serious question. I may have missed something.) All the "PCs" in HP are wizards.

I guess you do not consider Hagard a PC then. He is a half-giant who uses a crossbow and/or his own strength in the final battle. He knows his own magic skills are weak and hampered by using a broken wand, so he uses his heritage, and raw strenght during the fight.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Of what? (Serious question. I may have missed something.) All the "PCs" in HP are wizards.

...Who more often then not solve their problems not through magic but through cunning, knowledge, bravery, and "love."

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I guess you do not consider Hagard a PC then.

No, Hagrid's not a PC any more than any of the supporting characters are. The PCs are Ron, Hermione, and Harry. (Arguably there's always a fourth PC in any given book. I guess the group keeps losing that player to Real Life.)

 

[TanisFrey]

No, Hagrid's not a PC any more than any of the supporting characters are. The PCs are Ron, Hermione, and Harry. (Arguably there's always a fourth PC in any given book. I guess the group keeps losing that player to Real Life.)

Outside of Ron, Hermione, and Harry; Hagrid and Dumdore are the most active of the "fourth PC" over the entire series.

 

[Aldarc]

IMHO, fantasy literature handles it by simply *not* being reduced to merely "killing things and taking their stuff". Combat is used now and then as plot points, but it is rarely the main theme in the stories.

Just watched some of the "Oh my Goddess" anime and read some of the manga. There you have three goddesses (who can summon one just as powerful angel each), and a guy that is good at riding motorbikes and his friends. Now, does anyone else get reminded about a certain overused and rather trite strawman video? How does this story handle it? By not being about fighting. There are fights, true - some plain motorcycle races, some earth-shaking power battles - but when it comes down to it, it's all about moral choices; recognizing the right thing to do, and having the strength of will to do it.

Keiichi Morisato is rarely an active participant in a fight. (In the one time I recall, he basically had his own angel.) He stands on the sideline or is a victim to the powerful forces around him. The goddesses purposefully restrict the use of their magic. Plus Keiichi has a huge inferiority complex with regards to his usefulness in contrast with the goddesses. Plus the only time that Keiichi gets to put his racing to use are in instances in which racing becomes a plot point. For all other times, there are the goddesses, but even then there are instances in which the goddesses race. But the goddesses are limited by the amount of magic that they can do in a day before becoming fatigued. If Belldandy over-exerts herself using magic, she falls asleep. Oh My Goddess is hardly analogous to either the Angel Summoner/BMX Bandit or Mage/Fighter problem, as D&D and Angel Summoner/BMX Bandit are primarily about fighting and encounters. If they were not about fighting, then that would in no way alleviate the problem, but rather, exacerbate it, for the fighter.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Outside of Ron, Hermione, and Harry; Hagrid and Dumdore are the most active of the "fourth PC" over the entire series.

Not at all. Name a few scenes in which Ron, Harry, Hermione and (Hagrid||Dumbledore) both entered and exited the scene as a group.

You won't find many (if any at all). Hagrid and Dumbledore are classic NPCs. (Dumbledore even has a little bit of the annoying nature of Elminster going on.)

 

[Plane Sailing]

I find it interesting that much of the time when Conan faces seriously magical opposition, he survives it and conquers by virtue of the magic items he has in that adventure (the phoenix on the sword, the black seers of yimsha) in addition to his guts and strength.

Which is pretty much the way that high level D&D fighters have to overcome such foes too.

D&D is a game where magic items are not just important, they are vital. High level fighter types in games of OD&D, AD&D I used to play would have a variety of magic items which helped them in all manner of situations, and enabled them to play 'jack of all trades' just as much as the wizards. Of course, this was before 3e decided how much magic people 'should' have, and introduced a 'big n' magic items which sucked up the level-appropriate magic, but I digress

Cheers

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I find it interesting that much of the time when Conan faces seriously magical opposition, he survives it and conquers by virtue of the magic items he has in that adventure (the phoenix on the sword, the black seers of yimsha) in addition to his guts and strength.

Which is pretty much the way that high level D&D fighters have to overcome such foes too.

Good point.