How is the Wizard vs Warrior Balance Problem Handled in Fantasy Literature?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Looking at Greek mythology, most of the heroes were fighters.

I think you mean "demigods / Chosen of [X]es."

I mean, Hercules and Odysseus and Achilles weren't standard D&D fighters. They were D&D Fighters with Divine Ranks or with special oversight from specific gods / goddesses - or, in other words, they were just as magical as the wizards; they just more martial about it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hmmm... we can include a discussion of Doctor Strange. He's the most powerful wizard in the entire Marvel universe and does go up against cosmic entities such as Dormamu and Death and Eternity.

But even he can be taken down by a group of normals. And has been.

But he can cast such spells that can wipe the memory of every single person on the face of this planet.

But he can also be taken down by a group of nromals.

As the plot demands.

Most comic book über mages are like that- capable of casting god-smacking spells, but if distracted, just as vulnerable to a sniper's round or a knife through the ribs as anyone else.

And part of that is that they can only sustain so many magics for so long. Their spells have durations, and either collapse quickly or degrade over time, so must be "maintained" and "monitored"...and despite their immense power, they simply can't do or remember to do or don't have time to do everything they need to do to remain maximally protected.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Essentially it's handled in the same way that you have Batman in the Justice League. Batman's power is unlimited wealth.

No, Batman's power is his preparedness. In M&M terms, Batman with absolutely no gadgets or wealth loses very little in Power Level (the measure of capability in M&M).

For some reason, the guys that can stand toe to toe with Superman just never take the time to squash Bats like a bug.

To be fair, Darkseid recently killed Batman. (He got better, but it took a long time.) In general, villains on the level of Superman don't bother with Batman, either because Batman-as-a-solo keeps himself busy with less cosmically powerful foes and plots or because when Batman is with the League, well, the BBEGs are (understandably so) occupied with the big hitters like Superman, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter. (BTW, I don't read DC team books, so those names are likely out of date for the current roster. Just examples.)

The advantages of having a writer protecting you.

This is true, of course, but good writers -- as opposed to hack writers -- work pretty hard at, and do a decent job, explaining things like "How in the world can Superman and Batman be considered peers? By anybody?"

One of my favorite examples of this was a story in which Superman "offered" to clean up Gotham, since Batman seemed to be incapable of doing so. The resulting chaos -- which of course Batman anticipated -- was far worse than the Sysiphean status quo Batman maintained, and Superman had to mea culpa. Another example was in the excellent "Hush" arc, when Poison Ivy controlled Superman, and Batman only survived (barely) and broke her hold over him because he had been thinking twenty possibilities ahead.

 

[Barastrondo]

Most comic book über mages are like that- capable of casting god-smacking spells, but if distracted, just as vulnerable to a sniper's round or a knife through the ribs as anyone else.

Most comic book characters are like that. It's like professional wrestling: a character may be able to outmatch a Herald of Galactus at one point, be beat up by the Kangaroo the next. It all depends on who the writer is trying to establish as a badass: the character, or the guy that the character's going to be beaten by in order to make that guy look good.

Game balance is essentially something that people start looking hard at when one class starts acting like Hulk Hogan and refusing to put any other class over. It's a good time to be a Saveorsuckamaniac when the guy with the spray-on-tan and elaborate mustache starts talking about how his eighteen-foot summoned celestial pythons are gonna run wild on you, brotha. But sometimes that belt's gotta have a decent chance of changing hands in order to keep the audience interested.

 

[pawsplay]

Ranger Wickett beat me to it. Harry Potter is a very good example. There is no balance. Warriors (re Muggles) are flat out outclassed by wizards in all possible ways. Wizards rule the world to the point where the wizards are telling the Prime Minister of England what to do.

Not in all possible ways. Give me an AK-47 and I'll put a startle in a few of those guys as they wave their wands around and furrow their brows. In Harry Potter, spells are awesome, but not necessarily easy. Magic is often slow, definitely difficult to repeat.

 

[pawsplay]

I mean, Hercules and Odysseus and Achilles weren't standard D&D fighters.

Achilles, sure. But Hercules was purely a standard D&D fighter, albeit one with tremendous strength. And Odysseus? A bow-specialized fighter. Perseus? Fighter. Ajax? Fighter. Jason? Maybe a fighter-rogue.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In general, villains on the level of Superman don't bother with Batman, either because Batman-as-a-solo keeps himself busy with less cosmically powerful foes and plots or because when Batman is with the League, well, the BBEGs are (understandably so) occupied with the big hitters like Superman, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter.

Yep- just like PCs will pass up targeting minions with full force to concentrate fire on the BBEG- although this occasionally backfires.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hercules was purely a standard D&D fighter,

Ummmm...no. He was a demigod, the son of Zeus and a mortal.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Not in all possible ways. Give me an AK-47 and I'll put a startle in a few of those guys as they wave their wands around and furrow their brows. In Harry Potter, spells are awesome, but not necessarily easy. Magic is often slow, definitely difficult to repeat.

From what I've seen in the trailers, their spells are slow AND require wands. Your AK-47 should mow down a lot when you empty the first clip on full auto before you even feel a tingle of magic.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I think you mean "demigods / Chosen of [X]es."

I mean, Hercules and Odysseus and Achilles weren't standard D&D fighters. They were D&D Fighters with Divine Ranks or with special oversight from specific gods / goddesses - or, in other words, they were just as magical as the wizards; they just more martial about it.

Wizards are no different, though. Wizards were divine for a very long time (heck, just check out the etymology of the word "magician"), just the same as warriors were. That's why a magical/mundane divide in of itself is difficult - it's a divide that by and large isn't present throughout much of mythology. The protagonists are guided by fate and the divine regardless of swinging a sword or being able to talk to animals.

Harry Potter is a fun example, because for all the superpoweredness of magic that's in it, it's not magic that saves the day. The book is never "and then Harry cast the right spell and that was that, the day was saved."