Pathfinder 1E Sell me on Pathfinder

[jimmifett]

Local Borders was closing and I couldn't resist getting the Advanced Player's Guide for 50% off. Problem is, other than that and some adventure paths from the end of 3.5 I have that I never used, thats all I have on PF.

I'm not looking for any edition sniping. I'm an avid 4e DM and player, and I know any story can be told and enjoyed in just about any system. What I am looking for is what is unique, what makes pathfinder stand out and worth more of my money. The PF scene in my area is rather small, but perhaps I can change that.

I want to know player perspective, DM perspective, what works and what doesn't, and for what doesn't, how to make it work better / fix it as if i've never played 3.5 before.

I've heard something about pathfinder society, so info on that would be great to.

What i'm not interested in:
Why it's better than 4e. I know 4e (and love it as a DM), I know 3.x. I've read plenty of edition wars threads. I can do without that.

thx

 

[Dingo333]

Pathfinder is basically continued 3.5. I really don't know quite how to say it is different except that the times I played 4E, I did not enjoy and pathfinder caught me on the rebound. I also really enjoyed 3.5.

One thing I like about Pazio over WotC, is Pazio has all their material (except adventure paths, as far as I am aware) available free at http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

The best way to describe a system is to play, so I recommend finding a couple people interested in trying and going for a test drive.

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

One of the strongest reasons I would recommend Pathfinder is Paizo, they are a great company with excellent customer service who take care of their fans and playtest extensively.

Paizo also produce adventures which are as far as I am aware almost universally acknowledged as being superior to anything Wizards produces. The Paizo adventure paths in particular are fantastic. So if you are a DM who likes to run premade material I would argue that the Pathfinder modules and APs are a strong argument in its favor.

Otherwise its 3.5 core with some tweaking for better balance. Outside of core thus far I feel Paizo have done a far better job with the only real big non setting supplement so far The Advanced Player's Guide. I love almost all of the new classes in it and the Summoner in particular has to be an all tiem favorite - but be warned its for experienced players as people often build them incorrectly, though it seems pretty straight forward to me if you take the time to read through the rules carefully.

 

[Glade Riven]

One aspect that I love about Pathfinder is not only that the rules are released OLG and can be found online, but Paizo is not afraid of selling PDFs of nearly everything. Sure, I could probably find pirated versions if I wanted to, but I'd rather spend the money on a $10 PDF and show my support for the company. I'd also be interested in text-only ebook formats (particularly .epub).

I'm also a sucker for their art and typography - heck, during 3.5 I picked up the Pathfinder Campaign Setting based soley on how darn pretty it was, and found myself pleasantly surprised at the quality of content.

Still, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so milage may vary.

Game-wise, if you've played 3.5, Pathfinder is an adaptation of it. Cleans up a few things (like Turn Undead, Skills, and Combat Maneuvers), complicates others, brings the core classes up to late 3.5 strength.

 

[jimmifett]

Game-wise, if you've played 3.5, Pathfinder is an adaptation of it. Cleans up a few things (like Turn Undead, Skills, and Combat Maneuvers), complicates others, brings the core classes up to late 3.5 strength.

This is the kind of stuff i want to know more about with a little bit more detail so i can sell my group on the idea of trying it and me investing more into the system.

I know Paizo is an ok company, and yes, thier adventures are renown as the best, but i'm looking at mechanics and ease of DMing, useful game aides, etc.

 

[pawsplay]

I'm not looking for any edition sniping. I'm an avid 4e DM and player, and I know any story can be told and enjoyed in just about any system. What I am looking for is what is unique, what makes pathfinder stand out and worth more of my money. The PF scene in my area is rather small, but perhaps I can change that.

I think the APG is a good example of how Paizo is really using the modularity of the system. A couple of new classes, some new feats, new options, it's very cool that Paizo has worked on creating options without overshadowing core options or creating too much density in character creation.

The Bestiary, and the Bestiary II, are just fantastic, not only including updates of classic 3e beaties but also importing some of the "greatest hits" of AD&D via the Tome of Horrors.

The combat maneuvers system is really easy to use and flexible, creating space for dynamism in combat. Unless you go with something like Hero System or GURPS you are going to be hard-pressed to find something better.

The Pathfinder core book "shows the gears" a little. It's very easy for the GM to dial XP, gear, and enemy challenges to create the experience they want.

Third party support is a big plus for me. There are races, classes, adventures, campaign worlds, conversions, house rules, you name it. Dreamscarred Press converted psionics over, if that's your cup of tea.

Just lots of fun, really.

 

[IronWolf]

One of the strongest reasons I would recommend Pathfinder is Paizo, they are a great company with excellent customer service who take care of their fans and playtest extensively.

I definitely find myself enjoying Pathfinder and in conjunction supporting Paizo with my purchases. They really put a bunch into making their products and it shows.

One aspect that I love about Pathfinder is not only that the rules are released OLG and can be found online, but Paizo is not afraid of selling PDFs of nearly everything. Sure, I could probably find pirated versions if I wanted to, but I'd rather spend the money on a $10 PDF and show my support for the company. I'd also be interested in text-only ebook formats (particularly .epub).

The OLG bit is super nice as well. It is really nice to be able to use the SRD to look up rules when I am away from my books. The Pathfinder Wiki project is also quite nice to use as an online reference when away from books.

The PDF versions of their books is great as well. Like you, I find myself more than happy to shell out the money for them, simply because they are value priced.

I'm also a sucker for their art and typography - heck, during 3.5 I picked up the Pathfinder Campaign Setting based soley on how darn pretty it was, and found myself pleasantly surprised at the quality of content.

Something about their art grabs me as well and I am generally not a person that buys on the basis of art.

 

[DaveMage]

This is the kind of stuff i want to know more about with a little bit more detail so i can sell my group on the idea of trying it and me investing more into the system.

I know Paizo is an ok company, and yes, thier adventures are renown as the best, but i'm looking at mechanics and ease of DMing, useful game aides, etc.

In case you were unaware, the entire rules set is available for free online for your browsing pleasure. Visit here!

Dingo333 in his post above links to the 3rd party Pathfinder SRD - also a fantastic resource.

 

[1Mac]

I have to say, the APG moved me from thinking of Pathfinder as an interesting but unremarkable set of house rules to a game I could find exciting. There are just a ton of options and character options it and the core book can support.

 

[Anguish]

I want to know player perspective, DM perspective, what works and what doesn't, and for what doesn't, how to make it work better / fix it as if i've never played 3.5 before.


What i'm not interested in:
Why it's better than 4e. I know 4e (and love it as a DM), I know 3.x. I've read plenty of edition wars threads. I can do without that.

When describing something, comparison to established experience is useful. So the following isn't edition warring, it's simply comparison.

PFRPG is hugely compatible with 3.5e materials, first of all. That means you can pick up a 3.5e published module and run it with PFRPG characters, or vice-versa. There are some key changes that you should be aware of, but they're all addressable on-the-fly.

• Turn Undead now is channel energy - a holy fireball that heals living or harms undead
• Barbarians get rounds-per-day of rage (other classes get similar boosts)
• Grapple is replaced with a "unified" combat maneuver system
• Skills are condensed to fewer with the same uses
• General BAB progression-to-hit-dice reform (half BAB = d6, 3/4 BAB = d8, full BAB = d10, barb retains special d12)

Otherwise there are a lot of subtle changes that improve the 3.5e mechanic. Things like monks getting full BAB while flurrying (and only flurrying). Spell casters get cantrips at-will. Save-or-suck spells are widely nerfed somewhat. Everyone gets feats on odd numbered levels, not every 3. Undead are subject to sneak-attack/precision-damage (though oozes and the like remain immune). Fighters get abilites beyond feats which make them especially good at their role; improved mobility in armor, improved bonuses with weapons, resistances to fear.

All in all, PFRPG is 3.5e with a lot more options available to your PCs. They're not all awesomesauce, but the idea is that when your wizard is reduced to "I pull out my crossbow and shoot", he instead has something vaguely magical to do. Lots of little things that smooth out questions like "what does a rogue do when not busy sneak-attacking?" If you liked 3.5e, PFRPG is logical, enjoyable refinement of that edition. It's the culmination of a decade of gaming theory and experience applied to the system.

In the Bestiaries, monsters have similarly been revisited. There are 3.5e monsters that were too weak for their challenge rating. There are those that were too strong. Or too obnoxious. Paizo has revisited the balance after ten years of seeing the 3rd edition monsters in use and made changes to make them more... smooth.

Otherwise, when it comes to selling the system, what it brings to the table that 4e does is simply... complexity. Lots of it. There are a lot of fiddly bits, especially in the spells section. If your players are interested in straight hack & slash, 4e is fine. PFRPG offers a different type of play - if you want it - in the form of a truly vast spell array. Magic users change battlefields in ways that aren't permitted in 4e for balance reasons. I'm not saying it's better. I'm saying it's different.

That's the biggest selling point. It's got the complexity and diversity of 3rd edition but tempered my maturity. That doesn't mean it's right for everyone, and if your erection lasts for more than four hours, count yourself lucky.