Converting monsters from Second Edition Monstrous Compendiums

[freyar]

But there's this:

Giant coral typically wait for their victims to approach their huge reef. They then dart out of their coral tubes to their full length and attack their victims with their rock grinding mouths.

That sounds like they don't attack while in their tubes, except if someone follows them inside and reaches an open area in the tube maze:

If threatened, giant coral can retreat into the safety of their reef where only the foolish pursue them as areas open up where many of the beings can attack at once.

I think I'm going to stick to my guns on this unless you can give me better evidence.

 

[Cleon]

But there's this:

That sounds like they don't attack while in their tubes, except if someone follows them inside and reaches an open area in the tube maze:

They only occasionally leave their tubes to attack prey. That infers that they usually attack prey while in their tubes, presumably by "stretching out" from them.

I don't see how you could possibly interpret that as meaning they can't attack from inside a coral tube.

Further, it says a coral tube lair starts out 2' wide and 2' long, but the "long black slug like snakes" that live within the tube are at least 7' long.

That suggests that they're coiled or compacted inside the tube and stretch out to their full length when attacking.

 

[freyar]

Right, they're stretched out, outside of their tubes. "They then dart out of their coral tubes to their full length and attack their victims with their rock grinding mouths." That sure sounds like they are outside of their tubes.

 

[Shade]

Right, they're stretched out, outside of their tubes. "They then dart out of their coral tubes to their full length and attack their victims with their rock grinding mouths." That sure sounds like they are outside of their tubes.

Yeah, that seems pretty definitive to me too.

 

[freyar]

Ok, if that's settled, how about this?

Armored Tube (Ex): Coral worms build tubes by cementing together shards of coral. The tube is covered with razor-sharp ridges on the outside but pearly smooth inside. A coral worm can withdraw entirely inside its armored tube to gain the benefits of full cover. In addition, the razor-sharp exterior gives the worm a spiny defense (see below). The tube has hardness 7 and 25 hit points (50 for a Gargantuan worm, 100 for a Colossal worm).

Spiny Defense (Ex): Any creature that attacks a coral worm inside its armored tube (or the tube itself) must succeed at a DC 12 Reflex save or take 1d10 slashing damage from the razor-sharp coral shards covering the tube. Note that weapons with exceptional reach, such as longspears, do not endanger their users in this way. the save DC is Dexterity-based.

As for the speed thing, why not just give it a higher base speed than the swim speed? If necessary, we can add a note that they can use their base speed in their tubes.

 

[Cleon]

Ok, if that's settled, how about this?

No it ain't, cause they must keep at least contact with their tubes when they stretch out otherwise they would leave them every time they attack, not just "occasionally".

Anyhow, since this bit:

Armored Tube (Ex): Coral worms build tubes by cementing together shards of coral. The tube is covered with razor-sharp ridges on the outside but pearly smooth inside. A coral worm can withdraw entirely inside its armored tube to gain the benefits of full cover. In addition, the razor-sharp exterior gives the worm a spiny defense (see below). The tube has hardness 7 and 25 hit points (50 for a Gargantuan worm, 100 for a Colossal worm).

Spiny Defense (Ex): Any creature that attacks a coral worm inside its armored tube (or the tube itself) must succeed at a DC 12 Reflex save or take 1d10 slashing damage from the razor-sharp coral shards covering the tube. Note that weapons with exceptional reach, such as longspears, do not endanger their users in this way. the save DC is Dexterity-based.

In no way prevents them from attacking while inside their tube I think we're getting there...

What about the reef complex of interlinking tubes though, and changing the "built up" tube flavour to a "secreted" tube?

I'm also thinking it's easier making the coral tube HP independent of the size of worm, since the original version implies giant coral animals of different sizes share a reef and use communal tubes.

Hence:

Coral Tube (Ex): Coral worms secrete tubes of coral to live inside. The tube pearly smooth inside, but covered with razor-sharp ridges on the outside. When fighting from inside a tube, a coral worm gains cover (+4 to AC and +2 to Reflex saves) plus a +4 circumstance bonus to its AC, for a total bonus to Armor Class of +8. In addition, the razor-sharp exterior gives the worm a spiny defense (see below). A coral worm can withdraw entirely inside a coral tube to gain the benefits of full cover.

The coral tubes of a colony of coral worms interconnect to form an extensive reef. Such tube complexes are a maze of passages which open into chambers where many coral worms can simultaneously attack intruders from all sides.

Coral tubes have hardness 7 and 50 hit points per 5 ft. section.

Spiny Defense (Ex): Any creature outside a coral tube that attacks a coral worm inside the tube (or the tube itself) must succeed at a DC 12 Reflex save or take 1d10 slashing damage from the razor-sharp shards covering the tube. Note that weapons with exceptional reach, such as longspears, do not endanger their users in this way. the save DC is Dexterity-based.

Tubular Speed (Ex): A coral worm can move at a speed of 30 ft. when any part of its body is within a coral tube.

As for the speed thing, why not just give it a higher base speed than the swim speed? If necessary, we can add a note that they can use their base speed in their tubes.

The original version seems quite clear about them being speed 12" when inside their coral tubes and swimming at 3" outside it. There's no mention of them crawling as fast as a man when outside their tube. Indeed, the MCA4 version says "They move slowly (MV 3) and are only AC 8 when exposed" without saying what form that movement is - which suggests they might swim or crawl at 10 ft. or so outside their tubes while moving at 30 ft. inside their tubes.

 

[freyar]

Didn't you just repost what you had before that Shade and I didn't like?

The thing is, if it stretches out of its tube "to its full length" it's not inside the tube anymore! And that's how it attacks. Besides, the tubes are rigid, so it can't stay within the tube and turn its head, etc, to attack. The bit about "occasionally" leaving the tube means literally swimming out away from the tube to somewhere else.

As for the speed, I think you're probably over-parsing the original text, since it seems just like vague language to me. And I doubt the original design was intended to be so complex. I'll let Shade decide.

 

[Shade]

I agree that "to its full length" would prevent any cover benefit from the tube.

I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other about the "tubular speed", but what's the logic behind it? If it's because it can propel itself from more surfaces, then a climb speed would seem a better fit. If it is because of water jets or somesuch, wouldn't any creature in the tube gain a swifter speed? If its supernatural, then it would need to become a magical beast.

 

[freyar]

Good point; how does the tubular speed work?

 

[Cleon]

Didn't you just repost what you had before that Shade and I didn't like?

That's right. Since it was correct before it's correct now.

The thing is, if it stretches out of its tube "to its full length" it's not inside the tube anymore! And that's how it attacks. Besides, the tubes are rigid, so it can't stay within the tube and turn its head, etc, to attack. The bit about "occasionally" leaving the tube means literally swimming out away from the tube to somewhere else.

I imagine it's only stretched out for the brief moment it makes the bite attack. Like if an orc stabs a PC through an arrowslit the orc doesn't have its arm sticking out the embrasure for the entire round.