Has the DM fallen from grace?

[ForeverSlayer]

good point - I think making monsters easier to run in 4E has allowed me, as DM, to work more on the story in-game, creating better NPC personalities, etc. In my previous campaign, I spent so much time building encounters that I had no spare time to give the NPCs a personality and do more than loosely string the encounters together.

What rule system did you use for your previous campaign? I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was 3.5.

In 3.5 it was also easy to create monsters because each monster manual had the template already done for you.

Changing things around on the various monsters didn't take very long.

 

[D'karr]

What rule system did you use for your previous campaign? I'm going to take a wild guess and say it was 3.5.

In 3.5 it was also easy to create monsters because each monster manual had the template already done for you.

Changing things around on the various monsters didn't take very long.

Plopping a monster into an encounter is not the end of the preparation.

If that monster had any spells, or spell like abilities preparation time also "required" the DM to have familiarity with those abilities. If he wanted to do a halfway decent job. The DM either needed to know the spells/abilites and how it worked, or had to go look it up.

If he did this during prep time then that extended that time significantly. If he did this during run time, then that impacted the combat speed, as well as how satisfactorily that encounter turned out. As the creatures became more complicated with more spells/spell like abilities the prep time was significantly increased.

I ran 3.0/3.5 from 2000 until earlier this year. Towards the end of the campaign, I loathed preparation time. So no, not a good comparison.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Plopping a monster into an encounter is not the end of the preparation.

If that monster had any spells, or spell like abilities preparation time also "required" the DM to have familiarity with those abilities. If he wanted to do a halfway decent job. The DM either needed to know the spells/abilites and how it worked, or had to go look it up.

If he did this during prep time then that extended that time significantly. If he did this during run time, then that impacted the combat speed, as well as how satisfactorily that encounter turned out. As the creatures became more complicated with more spells/spell like abilities the prep time was significantly increased.

I ran 3.0/3.5 from 2000 until earlier this year. Towards the end of the campaign, I loathed preparation time. So no, not a good comparison.

I ran 3rd edition games since it came out and now I run Pathfinder games and I don't find it to be time consuming. All I do is take the template and add or take however I want. Sometimes if I want to take away I just don't use some of the creatures abilities on the fly.

The only thing that 4th edition has over 3rd with regards to creating monsters is dealing magic items if you decide to use them on your monsters.

When you have been doing it long enough and you develop a system then it doesn't become a problem at all. I have always been able to take any creature and throw a class on it with no problem.

 

[FireLance]

Changing things around on the various monsters didn't take very long.

The amount of time it took to change monsters around in 3.5e varied from monster to monster, but it also tended to be directly proportional to how strictly you applied the rules.

Advancing a dire rat from 1 HD to 4 HD (I actually did this for one low-level adventure I ran) could require several operations since (by the rules) you had to:
- adjust hit points
- adjust saving throws
- adjust skill points
- pick a feat
- increase one ability score
- change size to medium, which had knock-on effects on AC, attack modifier, grapple checks, Hide checks, damage rolls and ability scores
- figure out the knock-on effects of the ability score changes

To be fair, most of complexity was caused by the size change. However, even setting that aside, I would still tend to spend more time advancing monsters in 3e than 4e because of the nature of the adjustments. In 4e, the adjustments are all mathematical and formulaic. In 3.5e, if I advanced the creature enough for it to gain one or more feats, I would actually have to decide which feat or feats to pick, and I do not consider "just take Toughness all the time" to be a viable option.

 

[malraux]

Wait, you don't even run 4e yet every other week you feel then need to drop a critical semi-baiting thread in the 4e forum?

 

[FireLance]

I ran 3rd edition games since it came out and now I run Pathfinder games and I don't find it to be time consuming. All I do is take the template and add or take however I want. Sometimes if I want to take away I just don't use some of the creatures abilities on the fly.

So, you run 3e/Pathfinder like how 4e is supposed to be run?

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Wait, you don't even run 4e yet every other week you feel then need to drop a critical semi-baiting thread in the 4e forum?

Actually I run 4th edition, Pathfinder, RIFTS, Supernatural and a Hunter game.

Might want to ask before you assume.

 

[D'karr]

This is your thread and I really don't feel like getting into another thread that turns into an edition war, or the typical "I've been doing it since it came out" discussion.

Your point here is the most telling in regards to preparation:

When you have been doing it long enough.

What if you're a brand new DM? What do you do then? How long is long enough?

The current tools for DMs are significantly "better" at eliminating that need for "doing it long enough." Because of this, DMs have a much better encouragement to prepare interesting stories, plots, combats, encounters, etc. They don't need to do it long enough, they can start doing it right away.

So the tools are better at elevating the DM. Not having him "fall from grace."

 

[D'karr]

So, you run 3e/Pathfinder like how 4e is supposed to be run?

LOL, good catch.

Yeah, if you do it long enough, and purposely obviate every "rule" for creatures in 3e, it's not that difficult.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

This is your thread and I really don't feel like getting into another thread that turns into an edition war, or the typical "I've been doing it since it came out" discussion.

Your point here is the most telling in regards to preparation:


What if you're a brand new DM. What do you do then? How long is long enough?

The current tools for DMs are significantly "better" at eliminating that need for "doing it long enough." Because of this, DMs have a much better encouragement to prepare interesting stories, plots, combats, encounters, etc. They don't need to do it long enough, they can start doing it right away.

So the tools are better at elevating the DM. Not having him "fall from grace."

There are a few monster building materials out there for 3rd/Pathfinder that can help DM's create monsters. Thing is, in 3rd edition you didn't have to tread carefully when you modified and created your monsters. In 4th edition you have a lot less leeway when it comes to creating your own brand because the balance is close.

If you use the monster building charts from the back of the Monster Manual I for 3rd edition it isn't hard at all nor is it time consuming.

Really the only thing 4th edition did was go ahead and do the work for you and provide the DM with various types of the same creature to use.

As someone has mentioned before, size could make you pause a moment or two but there was nothing there that kept you from creating NPC's, etc..

If you are trying to DM and you are actually down to counting the minutes with regards to prep time then DMing may not be for you. Freeing up a few minutes in the end isn't really nothing to celebrate about.