How to run a 4th Edition Campaign When You're Used to 3rd Edition?

[AbdulAlhazred]

3) Yeah, I was thinking about it, but I'm wondering how you can make good encounter maps if you're winging it? Don't they usually require a high degree of planning to get right?

4) Yeah, I guess I just have to try to make some skill challenges to see how they work because I'd really like to get the hang of them and all the other 4th edition mechanics.

Well, one thing that I've found is good as a start is to trust the DMG. James Wyatt is a pretty smart guy. Some things they didn't get perfect, but for instance the basic encounter building templates/guidelines are not bad places to start.

The main difference with 4e really is you definitely don't want a combat that is stuck at a choke point or where several PCs will just end up pinning down and surrounding one big monster that then can't do anything but trade blows with them. Every battle worth running should be like a scene from an action movie somehow. Put something good in there, a bridge, a pit, a balcony, some furniture, traps, hazards, terrain. Use some basic terrain, but at the very least have a few trees or boulders or something. One single big melee bad guy with no way to break off and move around will need some tricks added to the map to allow that.

4e combats are more intensive than in previous editions. You CAN make trivial encounters, and with minions it is truly easy to do that, but most encounters should have a reason for existing. Ask a few questions about why you want to have the encounter. How does it add to and fit into the plot. Is it needed? Can it be made into something more interesting than straight combat? The third room full of orcs in the orc lair that are basically there because you need an orc tribe to have 52 orcs in it? Eh. You just don't need that. Make it 5 minions that the party can blast with at-wills as they run past, its window dressing. Or just make it an SC to 'surprise the orcs' and levy a couple surges for failures.

There is a lot of possibility to make types of plots that were hard before. The NPCs are just stat blocks now, and the PCs lack a lot of 'plot buster' type powers that spells provided in the past, so you can make a murder investigation and not need to worry about the PCs just running all over it with divinations. The BBEG can actually be something that doesn't have to live in an adamantium, lead lined, anti-magical, vault at the bottom of the ocean to survive at higher levels either. So take advantage of that.

As for skill challenges. Just remember that they're a way of gaging success during normal problem solving. The players need to explain what they want to do, and it is up to the DM to decide if that can work and what skill and DC it is. If you just plop the PCs in front of a STATIC situation that is meant to be a challenge the players will just get the best guy to roll all the checks. So there has to be something going on. If the PCs are going to climb a cliff then there should be a number of elements of the challenge that come up as they go and require different characters to react to, and whatever actions they take will propel the thing forward. It should be a little mini-story of its own with a plot and an antagonist.

 

[pemerton]

In addition to what AbdulAlhazred says, I would add:

*With skill challenges, think hard about framing the situation, and think of a few complications that would make it fun and push it towards some sort of conclusion. Then as the players make their skill checks, introduce those complications - if the players are getting successes, the complications should push towards the PCs achieving their goal, while if the players are getting failures then the complications should be reflecting that.

*With monsters, look for ones with powers that will be fun for you and your group at the table. Lots of 4e monsters have their flavour expressed through their powers, which is different, I think, from earlier editions. If you've got the MM, look at monsters like the Mad Wraith (it's aura of crazed mutterings) or the Deathlock Wight (it's horrific visage) for examples. If you've got the MV, have a look at some of the gnolls. These interesting monsters, with interesting terrain, go a long way to producing interesting combat encounters.

*When you're running combat, make the fiction matter. Encourage your players to have their PCs climb walls, hide behind tables, jump over pits, etc. Stuff that makes it clear that the real action is not on the battlemap, but in the shared fiction.

 

[S'mon]

3) Yeah, I was thinking about it, but I'm wondering how you can make good encounter maps if you're winging it? Don't they usually require a high degree of planning to get right?

On Saturday I ran a perfectly good fight vs jackalweres on a completely open plain, effectively no 'terrain'. Terrain effects are nice and can spice up an encounter, but are far from vital.

 

[S'mon]

MadMaxim,

After a while it becomes easier to just draw out a map or encounter area on the fly, but I like to have a few encounter possibilities pre-made to drop into any situation. That helps in a pinch.

Preprinted Paizo flipmats are great for this. The more generic WotC poster maps like the ones in 'Threats to the Nentir Vale' can also be good, though the half-side ones tend to feel a bit small and cramped IME.

 

[Pentius]

What I basically have problems with are how to take things like the 4th edition hazards and obstacles into account without having very detailed encounter maps?

Depending on how much work you put in to map drawing, adding in hazards and obstacles doesn't take long. You could pretty easily add them on the fly. If you're really having trouble with it, though, I'd recommend making and holding onto some 'preset' maps. Make a couple different ones in varying locales, then if something comes up, you've probably got something that'll work. Switch them out as need to make sure things don't get stale.

How do you wing encounters without screwing the PCs over completely?

With relative ease. 4e combat is much less swingy, and the encounter budget system is a much more accurate gauge of difficulty than the CR system. Specifically what I like to do is have a few basic monsters around the party's level pulled out and printed up, and stuck to the inside of my DM screen. Say, a Soldier, an Artillery, a Leader, and a Lurker. When I need to run an unplanned combat, I just grab them, reskin them as whatever is appropriate and possibly do an on the fly power tweak or two. For example, say the party unexpectedly gets into a fight with some kobolds. I'll grab a Soldier or two, some Lurkers, and a Leader add the kobolds' Shifty power to them and change the Leader's spell ability(which he has, for this example) to whatever energy type his dragon liege uses. With the power tweaks, the reskin and changing the composition the party generally never realizes I'm doing this. Replace the list as needed.

How do the rest of you plan for campaigns in 4th edition compared to 3rd edition?

Well, I keep the combat stuff AA mentioned in mind, but the main difference is that in 4e, I rarely consider the rules when planning campaign stuff. I use them for encounter stuff, but I find the rules tend to get out my way during planning, and are easily adaptable to whatever I do come up with.

How do you handle treasure compared to 3rd edition? I just have a feeling that my usual way of doing it just isn't the smartest way to make use of the mechanics of 4th edition, and I really want to make use of them in the best possible way. Thanks in advance!

The Parcel System in the DMG works fairly well. I try to de-emphasize the looting of fallen foes in favor of other ways of getting stuff, such as rewards from NPCs or discovering forgotten treasures. I've been experimenting with using the Fixed Enhancement Bonus rules that are in the DMG2(and again in the Dark Sun book) and a series of boons, but this is more personal preference than anything.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

It sounds like you've read the 4E DMG but in case you you haven't, I recommend reading it and learning the issues in 3.x that the designers were trying to improve upon and the game theory that the designers were embracing when developing the new system. I've had GMs who didn't do that and ended up running 4E as they would a 3.x game, so many of the 4E innovations were overlooked.

 

[S'mon]

I
*With monsters, look for ones with powers that will be fun for you and your group at the table. Lots of 4e monsters have their flavour expressed through their powers, which is different, I think, from earlier editions. If you've got the MM, look at monsters like the Mad Wraith (it's aura of crazed mutterings) or the Deathlock Wight (it's horrific visage) for examples. .

Although it sure would help the poor DM if they'd include a 'fluff text' line in with the powers. Sometimes the power name just isn't enough to inspire me, or even to tell me what the monster is supposed to be doing.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Although it sure would help the poor DM if they'd include a 'fluff text' line in with the powers. Sometimes the power name just isn't enough to inspire me, or even to tell me what the monster is supposed to be doing.

This. Normally when you can put yourself into the head of the designers you can see exactly what they were thinking (for instance I can think of a poison gas attack vs will - to hold your breath rather than inhale at the wrong time) but they don't explain what they were thinking so it's often quite hard to do.

But the biggest tip I'd give is that skill challenges are an excellent DMing resource. Don't tell the PCs they are in a skill challenge, and never use one to replace a skill check. But for plans that take half an hour to an hour to resolve and are relatively complex and the PCs can adapt they are an excellent resource for being able to pluck DCs from thin air, track on a tally chart how the PCs are doing and then just ignore things. (Edit for clarity: By "ignore things" I mean of course ignore the rest of the ruleset in favour of running the scene, and just keep your numbers and tally charts rather than ignore what the PCs are doing.)

Oh, and a big change to the magic system. What the PCs normally cast is battle magic. Most NPC casters the PCs are going to want to meet will use rituals. So there's no reason the priest who can Raise Dead needs to be an utter combat badass who can cast spells like Blade Barrier or Divine power rather than a doddery old 8th level minion who will die to one hit.

Hazards and obstacles - just remember that pushing bad guys into their own pit traps/the river/the cess pit is fun. You don't need much more than that. And fights on narrow ledges are always going to end up with people going over.

 

[S'mon]

But the biggest tip I'd give is that skill challenges are an excellent DMing resource. Don't tell the PCs they are in a skill challenge, and never use one to replace a skill check. But for plans that take half an hour to an hour to resolve and are relatively complex and the PCs can adapt they are an excellent resource for being able to pluck DCs from thin air, track on a tally chart how the PCs are doing and then just ignore things.

Agreed - the X successes before 3 failures is a useful DMing tool, but only as long as you DON'T TELL THE PLAYERS.

 

[jimmifett]

I was wondering if anyone had some tips on running 4th edition campaigns and what the major differences could be considered? I've run plenty of campaigns using 3.5th edition material and got used to the way the mechanics worked and designed everything with the rules in mind (yes, I'm a bit of a rules-lawyer), but with 4th edition everything seems to be more or less independent of the rules unless you turn it into some sort of encounter, be it a combat encounter or a skill challenge. I just have a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around the new design ideas.

Usually, I run a very loose game but I have all the major NPCs statted out whether they're the big bad evil guy or just some friendly NPCs the PCs run into. I usually begin with picturing my BBEG and stat him/her/it to the level that I see the PCs finishing the campaign around, like say 18th level, and then I roll the story backwards until I end up with the 1st-level badguys that the PCs are going to meet. While I'm doing that I choose the general areas that the PCs are mostly likely to travel through, like the deserts of Mulhorand in Forgotten Realms and what they're most likely to encounter in that environment. I have a basic idea about what skill checks or saves I'm going to call for in the different environments and so on.

What I basically have problems with are how to take things like the 4th edition hazards and obstacles into account without having very detailed encounter maps? How do you wing encounters without screwing the PCs over completely? How do the rest of you plan for campaigns in 4th edition compared to 3rd edition? How do you handle treasure compared to 3rd edition? I just have a feeling that my usual way of doing it just isn't the smartest way to make use of the mechanics of 4th edition, and I really want to make use of them in the best possible way. Thanks in advance!

Much of what you are doing will not change. You don't need to stat out NPCs unless you expect to fight with or against them. In which case, grab an entry from the monster manual/vault for that race, adjust level, and possibly add a template to represent a PC class in way of abilities.

For opposed checks, you have the ability mods and can decide on the fly if the NPC is trained in anything, in which case, add +5 to a skill. For any other skill checks, you can ball park a DC based on party level and if the check is easy/medium/hard to get a good DC. The new DM screen is great for this.

Skill challanges are good for montages, or to keep track of an overarching event in the background that occurs time, and has branching paths of success and failure. For instance, weekening an approaching army befor it hits the town. Gain successes for scouting, infiltrating bases, stealing plans, assassinating officers, contaminating food stores, etc. Success, the army is weaker when it reaches town. Failure, the army is at normal strength (which should be just slightly above tough) and possibly the party captured and must escape during the battle.

As for winging encounters, just have a few generic encounters planned out in advance with prefined archetypes needed for enemies. You know that a forest ambush, you'd like x strikers, x brutes, x minions w/ ranged attacked, etc. Then when it comes time, you use the monster by levels chart (or the compendium) to find monsters to fit the roles of the appropriate level. For heroic tier, grab Monster Vault: Threats to nentir vale. It has grouped enemies of similar level that work well together that you can just drop in.

For pacing, I like to run like an action movie (indiana jones-ish) between extended rests. Some exploration and research up front, maybe allow an extended rest after that, then the action starts to pick up with some time sensitive plot hook. I'll have 3-5 encounters during this high action crunch time with just enough time in between to catch a breath. At the end, I expect the party to be VERY low to empty on resources (healing surges)and thankful for an extended rest.

Since you have more enemies than previous editions, I like to make use of minions, preferably in waves. First handful rush in to get good tactical positioning. Then the stronger monsters, then the rest of the minions to re-inforce and help flank. You want to avoid head on combats were both sides start on opposite ends. Surround the party in an ambush, or spread out so the party splits up. Have terrain in 3 dimensions. Add unique set pieces like a bar you can set on fire, or vines to swing from high elevation to behind the party on, places where a dungeoneering cheek and a standard action can collapse a tunnel and create a choke point or knock monsters down off elevated positions.