D&D 4E Do you really want Greyhawk and Dragonlance for 4e
- Thread starter VGmaster9
- Start date
There i something that seems to bug me. Some people talk about just pulling out your old stuff and just using that. Well I ask this. What about all the new people who don't have access to the old stuff? Each setting brings something unique to the table that new fans of the game would enjoy.
I get tired of hearing the nostalgia excuse as well as the using your old stuff excuse. Some of the old material is rather expensive to get and hard to come buy. Also, that's not really how you sell a game. Do you really expect a newcomer to buy the rule books and then have to turn around and somehow find out about past campaign settings, and then actually finding them and spending lots of money to obtain them? That's too much work that people just aren't going to deal with.
Wizards really needs to learn something about it's campaign settings. The whole "we give the basics and you do the work" really isn't working anymore. Forgotten Realms is a testament to this. Go and take a look at Pathfinder's campaign setting Golarion. The setting i brilliant and it is rich in history and gives DM's an opportunity to run campaigns for years to come. Wizards needs to take some notes from these guys.
I would love to see a return of Dragonlance and Greyhawk, but I wouldn't want Wizards to screw it up. I would rather see Paizo work on those campaign settings.
I get tired of hearing the nostalgia excuse as well as the using your old stuff excuse. Some of the old material is rather expensive to get and hard to come buy. Also, that's not really how you sell a game. Do you really expect a newcomer to buy the rule books and then have to turn around and somehow find out about past campaign settings, and then actually finding them and spending lots of money to obtain them? That's too much work that people just aren't going to deal with.
Wizards really needs to learn something about it's campaign settings. The whole "we give the basics and you do the work" really isn't working anymore. Forgotten Realms is a testament to this. Go and take a look at Pathfinder's campaign setting Golarion. The setting i brilliant and it is rich in history and gives DM's an opportunity to run campaigns for years to come. Wizards needs to take some notes from these guys.
I would love to see a return of Dragonlance and Greyhawk, but I wouldn't want Wizards to screw it up. I would rather see Paizo work on those campaign settings.
Dice4Hire
First Post
You see, I am the opposite. I think 4E's settings are perfect. The basics, some new crunch, and enough fluff to give a good feel for the world. As an aside, the Monster book for Dark Sun is brilliant.
That is enough for me.
The 2E slew of books for FR and Birthright, among others, really turned me off. FR was the poster child (for me, not for everyone) of too much detail, and CANON or DIE!!!!
Leaving room for the DM to play in the world is essential.
The point about the old stuff not being available is a valid one, though.
Different strokes for different folks. What made Forgotten Realms unique as a setting was it's deep and rich history. When that was removed, the heart of the campaign setting was removed and the setting wasn't the same. Since this was the decision, the designers should have just retired the setting instead of changing it the way it did. i know some people enjoy the new setting but you can look at the various boards and see a big decline ever since the new realms came out.
I just never understood why both types of player's couldn't be catered to. For the people who want lot's of fluff it would be there and for those who didn't, you just wouldn't use what was there.
Your attempts at using Golarion as your example falls a little short considering this is the first time this setting information is being published. So there's really no comparison to what Paizo's currently doing with it and what WotC is/needs to do with Forgotten Realms.
Sure, WotC could just reprint all the books they made for 2E and 3E for all the different areas of FR (and probably putting Paizo to shame with the sheer breadth of material)... but who would actually buy any of it? Considering you actually can go onto Amazon at this very moment and pick up dozens of these books used for less than $20 apiece.
If people really want truckloads of Forgotten Realms setting material, it's available to them. Sure, it doesn't have '4E' stuck on the cover of it... but why does it need it? Considering you're buying these things for the fluff and not the crunch anyways.
the Jester
Legend
Unless something very strange has happened that I'm unaware of, none of FR's history was removed at all. In fact, more was added with the timeline advance.
Knightfall
World of Kulan DM
I don't think I'd buy Dragonlance for 4e as I love the 3e book done for the setting. However, as stated by Jester, I'd "be all over" a new Greyhawk setting book. I'd buy it just for the nostalgia factor alone. I don't DM Greyhawk but it has greatly influenced my own setting(s).
Of course, if someone offered, I'd play in a Greyhawk game!
Regardless, I doubt that WotC is in any hurry to revisit Greyhawk. Did they say for sure that the 2012 setting will be something completely new? I'd heard that there was to be a twist of some kind.
Personally, I think it might be a good idea for WotC to make a new setting book that takes the best elements of Planescape & Spelljammer and retcon/reboot them into a new setting. Or perhaps take one aspect of Planescape and turn that into its own campaign setting.
A Sigil: City of Doors campaign setting for paragon/epic play, anyone?
Of course, if someone offered, I'd play in a Greyhawk game!
Regardless, I doubt that WotC is in any hurry to revisit Greyhawk. Did they say for sure that the 2012 setting will be something completely new? I'd heard that there was to be a twist of some kind.
Personally, I think it might be a good idea for WotC to make a new setting book that takes the best elements of Planescape & Spelljammer and retcon/reboot them into a new setting. Or perhaps take one aspect of Planescape and turn that into its own campaign setting.
A Sigil: City of Doors campaign setting for paragon/epic play, anyone?
Stretching a timeline by adding a few more things isn't exactly keep with the rich and deep history of the Realms when those entries are only a few paragraphs long. When you compare books like the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide and Lost Empires of Faerun then there is no comparison.
Many many characters who have had ongoing stories in the Realms were killed off with no known story as to what happened to them. People that are new to the game may see an extended timeline for the Realms but no real knowledge of all the history that came before unless they somehow find out about the old books and get their hands on them. I know it mentions the Grand History of the Realms in the campaign guide, but that book is no longer in print.
I don't think I'd buy Dragonlance for 4e as I love the 3e book done for the setting. However, as stated by Jester, I'd "be all over" a new Greyhawk setting book. I'd buy it just for the nostalgia factor alone. I don't DM Greyhawk but it has greatly influenced my own setting(s).
Of course, if someone offered, I'd play in a Greyhawk game!
Regardless, I doubt that WotC is in any hurry to revisit Greyhawk. Did they say for sure that the 2012 setting will be something completely new? I'd heard that there was to be a twist of some kind.
Personally, I think it might be a good idea for WotC to make a new setting book that takes the best elements of Planescape & Spelljammer and retcon/reboot them into a new setting. Or perhaps take one aspect of Planescape and turn that into its own campaign setting.
A Sigil: City of Doors campaign setting for paragon/epic play, anyone?
The new setting is actually going to be a new way to play the game. I'm guessing it's going to be some kind of card game and board game rolled into one.
AlioTheFool
First Post
Yes I want Dragonlance 4E.
I don't care that there is a contingent that doesn't. I didn't care whether there was an Eberron 4E, but that came out. (And I actually wound up giving it a shot and loving it.) I don't care a lick about Dark Sun, even though I bought the books to rip things like Themes and monsters from. I don't have an opinion on Greyhawk, but I hope for its fans that it comes out.
It always makes me laugh when people act like there wasn't anything new in 4E. What is Nentir Vale? That explicitly qualifies as new. But people ignore it as a new setting altogether, even though it continues to be built out as a true setting. It just leads me to believe that, in general, people don't know what they want. They just want "something else."
I don't care that there is a contingent that doesn't. I didn't care whether there was an Eberron 4E, but that came out. (And I actually wound up giving it a shot and loving it.) I don't care a lick about Dark Sun, even though I bought the books to rip things like Themes and monsters from. I don't have an opinion on Greyhawk, but I hope for its fans that it comes out.
It always makes me laugh when people act like there wasn't anything new in 4E. What is Nentir Vale? That explicitly qualifies as new. But people ignore it as a new setting altogether, even though it continues to be built out as a true setting. It just leads me to believe that, in general, people don't know what they want. They just want "something else."
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