Bad DMs/GMs

[Fox Lee]

As if one incident, in one session, brands the GM and all his other potential work - he's Bad, period, end of story. We apparently don't need to know about his other work to call him Bad, in general.

Sure, but it's every bit as incorrect to say that none of these examples are legitimate. Chances are that plenty of us are providing one example of a broader behaviour pattern.

My friend the novelist didn't just have that problem over the course of the entire campaign (eventually it ended because she was the only one attached to her giant plot), but over all three games we played with her. She didn't think she was doing anything wrong; what she wanted out of a game was to have her story happen, and the PCs were there to be an audience. In my opinion, that is the mindset of a bad GM (a perfectly acceptable writer, but a bad GM).

In the spirit of equal criticism, I as a GM have some pretty annoying flaws. For example, I'm awkward when put on the spot - I'm unwilling to give definitive answers about something I haven't considered, for fear I shall paint myself into a corner later down the line. I take ages to draw battlemaps, I angst over how to play marked targets, and I often forget about environmental features/special abilities once combat starts. But none of these flaws has been overwhelming to the game at large. I am a flawed GM (as you say, who isn't?), but not a bad one.

 

[Pentius]

I'm sure that I have my DMing flaws as well, theory is always cleaner than execution, but to put things in perspective, maybe 80-90% of the Bad DM stories I tell here are all the same DM. We played with him for nearly 5 years, because no one else was willing to try(except occasionally me). We didn't really understand how bad he was, because we were all fairly new to gaming.

 

[Hussar]

I think Ben Stein would make an awesome GM. He would definitely be part of my gaming dream team: Ben Stein, Steven Colbert, Joel McHale, Kevin James and Tom Hanks (he must make penance for M&M).

Agreed.

I also think people are too quick to slap the label on. As if Good GMs apparently *never* make mistakes, have bad days, or areas of weakness?

"I once had a GM, who in a session did X..."

"Yeah, that's clearly a Bad GM."

As if one incident, in one session, brands the GM and all his other potential work - he's Bad, period, end of story. We apparently don't need to know about his other work to call him Bad, in general.

There is the other side of this though too. I've seen many times, on these boards, where any and all criticisms of DM's are summarily dismissed because the DM is always right. Heck, I've had people directly accuse me of being the problem and not the DM, despite any example I've given.

Yes, there is a fair bit of truth to what you're saying. Problems with playstyle are not a good/bad DM thing. That's totally fair. But, there is also a very strong tendency to give the benefit of the doubt to DM's rather than accept that people are capable of recognizing a bad DM when they've played with one.

The three worst DM's I've played with all had player revolts. One I led, and two I didn't. That's about the biggest signal you can give a DM when the entire table stands up and walks out.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Good leaders are those who can get other people to willingly do things that they don't have to do.

A DM is a leader. In my experience, the biggest problem a DM can have is not listening to the players. The next biggest is a lack of confidence or assertiveness. Inconsistency (in style, or in how the rules are interpreted) is also a problem. Occasionally, bad DMing involves making the game personal (either through grudges against one player or favoritism towards another).

In short, my description of bad DMing is my description of a person who couldn't convince me to do anything.

Personally, I'm mostly a DM so I hope I don't have much experience with bad DMing. I know I've had some as a player, but frankly I think the bad ones get removed pretty fast most of the time. Who's going to make a weekly appointment, cover session logistics (space, food, transit, etc.) and do prep work for a bad DM?

 

[Oryan77]

That's about the biggest signal you can give a DM when the entire table stands up and walks out.

My friend wanted to know; what about when only 1 player stops showing up, but it has happened with multiple players at different times?

I should state...I mean, my friend stated that it was always the newest player to the group. Never an existing player that had previously seen a player leave.

But still, does that make me, I mean him, a bad DM?

 

[Pentius]

The three worst DM's I've played with all had player revolts. One I led, and two I didn't. That's about the biggest signal you can give a DM when the entire table stands up and walks out.

I led one, too, but it was more of a dethroning. The group stayed together, we just crowned a new DM. It was a whole table of people standing up(for dramatic effect, probably) and saying, "No, Jake*, you do not get to DM anymore!"

*name change, again.

 

[Gilladian]

The worst DMing experience I ever had was one where the DM managed to end the campaign in one session. We were all traveling together (having just met) to meet a mysterious person who was offering us some sort of job. On the way, we stopped at an Inn. We ate a meal, ingested some sort of poison, and as we all frantically tried to figure out how to a) treat ourselves, b) find anyone in the town who could cure us or c) discover WHO poisoned us, we all slowly failed our saves, collapsed, and died. ALL of us. Without EVER finding ONE single clue to ANY solution...

This doesn't mean he was a BAD DM. It does mean he never tried to run a game for me/us again...

 

[Umbran]

Yes, there is a fair bit of truth to what you're saying. Problems with playstyle are not a good/bad DM thing. That's totally fair. But, there is also a very strong tendency to give the benefit of the doubt to DM's rather than accept that people are capable of recognizing a bad DM when they've played with one.

Well, there's two things:

1) We generally hear one side of the story. And it is usually the side of a person who feel they were wronged, shafted, or who are otherwise unhappy. That's not a great way to get an unbiased report.

2) Having a bad experience with a GM does not indicate the GM is, overall, bad. That's my big point. There's on person who GMs frequently at local gamedays here. I've not really enjoyed any of their games I've played. But still, I don't pass a judgment on their overall skill as a GM.

And, actually, a third thing... I almost hate to mention this one...

I think folks around here are a little too picky.

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm going to get jumped on for that one. I understand play what you like, and all that. But I respond with how one shouldn't make perfect the enemy of good. And I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Hussar]

My friend wanted to know; what about when only 1 player stops showing up, but it has happened with multiple players at different times?

I should state...I mean, my friend stated that it was always the newest player to the group. Never an existing player that had previously seen a player leave.

But still, does that make me, I mean him, a bad DM?

LOL

Probably not. If it were, I'd be the worst DM in the world.

But, when one player comes, plays a couple of times and then leaves, then it's likely simply a playstyle issue. That's groovy.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

well..when the DM is just more about HIS OWN CHARACTERS and cares nothing for the players characters, or when the entire campaign is based around what he wants his characters to do, and not like one shot npcs, but the kind that adventure with you npcs, that steal your gear and your xp


or when he throws monsters (and groups of monsters) at the party that they shouldn't be fighting (Yeth Hounds at a 1st level party without silvered weapons? ARE YOU KIDDING!!!)

I think a bad DM/GM is the one that focuses more on their own fun than the fun of the players.

When the only reason you survived a battle is because of something HE PUT IN THE ADVENTURE you know it's a railroad, and I do not like working on the rail road ALL THE LIVE LONG DAY

---The Summer Knight