I don't get the dislike of healing surges

[Aberzanzorax]

A "fix"?

A "fix"?


I was thinking about this, and the main problem with hp loss = wounds, at least in 3e, is the fairly-opposite understanding of healing magic (e.g. cure light wounds heals a smaller percentage of wounds on a lvl 10 guy than a lvl 1 guy).

So, I wonder, if it might be a narrative "fix" to consider/describe level 1 hp to be "wound related" and all other hp to be "verve related" in 3e. I think this might address that issue.

Cuts on a lvl 10 warrior would be very small indeed, so small as to not be substantial wounds (more like scrapes...e.g. in the example of a poison sword poisoning him, a la Hamlet's end)...UNTIL he was at or below his level one number of hp, at which point, the wounds would be described as if they were the same as if he were a first lvl fighter (6 hp is a giant gash, 15 hp is a gaping chest wound).


Might this address some/the rest/all of the wonkiness of 3e hp?

If it does, does it also address some/the rest/all of the wonkiness of 4e hp?

 

[Desdichado]

My question is this: Are there any other games out there in which a character can go from bleeding out on the ground, literally seconds away from dying, to full HP in just a 5 minute short rest, by himself, without magic or special regeneration powers of any kind? There is only 1 game I can think of that has that... Toon:

Are there any others? Pretty much every other RPG I know of has recovery times for hps.

Wrong question. Who cares what other RPGs do? Think of a classic action movie. I dunno, Jackie Chain's Legend of the Drunken Master II.

You can literally almost see the healing surges happen.

Drunken Master 2 (cantonese version) Final Fight - YouTube

 

[Mallus]

You might as well just get rid of any sort of real-world challenge and just make the game even easier and simpler by saying, "Everyone gets a Healing Burst after every single encounter. It heals you to max and now you can go to the next encounter without any worries. Have fun!"

Note that it was 3e that really trivialized the cost of healing, by granting casters more healing per level, and, more importantly, making healing items inexpensive (wand of cure light wounds). The default assumption was healing was cheap and easy to come by, as indicated by the low price.

..."cheat codes"...

The better analogy for using a cheat code is rolling a new PC when you die (allowing you to continue progress in the game). In fact, you could D&D pioneered the idea of "infinite continues" .

 

[Mallus]

(2) If you prefer HP=wounds then pre-4E serves your needs, but 4E doesn't.

If you prefer HP=wounds, then pre-4e serves your needs... if you're willing to rationalize away all the ways HP don't behave like wounds in the slightest under those systems.

 

[pemerton]

This is the Schrodinger's Wound I was talking about before.

The so-called Schrodinger's Wound problem is, in my view, grossly exaggerated. I've posted a couple of times upthread how the narration works.

It makes it impossible to actually describe the game world except in a retcon after the fact.

It's not a retcon if nothing is overridden. It's rendering precise what was, earlier, ambiguous.

And that, of course, is a huge impediment to actually roleplaying. How are you supposed to make choices as if you were your character (the definition of roleplaying) if the mechanics won't even let you see the game world?

Well, given that all you're doing is rolling death saves, the amount of choice to be made is pretty limited. But suppose that someone heals you, so you can spend a surge and recover from negative hit points - there is nothing stopping you roleplaying at that point (including describing both your unconsciousness and your recovery from it as you see fit).

It's not as if 4e is the only RPG ever to use fortune-in-the-middle mechanics.

If you try to treat these as roleplaying mechanics you end up with a universe where people really CAN heal their wounds by shouting at them. (Or, alternatively, be poisoned by blades that never touch them.)

No. It's just about keeping the narration coherent. If the blade inflicted poison, it (at least) scratched you. If you then regained consciousness from the warlord healing you, maybe it was your memory of the warlord, and your resolution not to fail in the mission, that inspired you to get back up.

You have to accept that these mechanics are not associated with the game world and that while you're using them you're not roleplaying.

Personally, I think that the experience of those who roleplay using these mechanics is a more reliable guide to how they work, and the sort of game they support.

 

[Desdichado]

It also occurs to me that all this isn't really a problem with hit points per se; but a lot of it is a problem with the runaway accumulation of hitpoints.

Once again, I find that higher level D&D--of any edition--is just plan difficult to rationalize. If you keep hit points fairly low, then most of the problems described in this thread never really happen.

 

[Bedrockgames]

It also occurs to me that all this isn't really a problem with hit points per se; but a lot of it is a problem with the runaway accumulation of hitpoints.

Once again, I find that higher level D&D--of any edition--is just plan difficult to rationalize. If you keep hit points fairly low, then most of the problems described in this thread never really happen.

I have always prefered static HP in games where they stay the same no matter what level.

 

[Desdichado]

I have always prefered static HP in games where they stay the same no matter what level.

Have you houseruled your D&D to play that way? Or do you just prefer to play other games besides D&D?

 

[Bedrockgames]

Have you houseruled your D&D to play that way? Or do you just prefer to play other games besides D&D?

No, i play D&D mostly by RAW. But I prefer damage and wound systems from other games ( and these days I am mostly playing other games).

 

[wedgeski]

And that, of course, is a huge impediment to actually roleplaying. How are you supposed to make choices as if you were your character (the definition of roleplaying) if the mechanics won't even let you see the game world?

What choices are you denied, exactly? Has this been answered in the thread already?