D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 ShielMaster/Crusader worth for tanking?

[Dandu]

Seen around people saying the Crusader was the best Tank, but been browsing around and found this PrC, it has no discussion so couldn't see if people liked it or no.

I am now ready to give my opinions on the class.

Concealing Shield (Ex): A shieldmaster knows a shield can provide a physical cover from the enemy's sights. At 1st level a shieldmaster may use a light or heavy shield, and gains a constant 10% miss chance from enemy attacks which require attack rolls. If using a tower shield, this miss chance is 20%. At 3rd level the miss chances rise to 15% and 35% respectively, and at 5th level 20% and 50%. The miss chance is not negated by True Seeing, but can be negated if the shieldmaster loses his shield bonus to AC. When using the total defense action, the miss chance doubles.

Good.

Shield Fighting (Ex): At 1st level a shieldmaster gains Two-Weapon Fighting when making attacks with his weapon and a shield. If the shieldmaster already possesses Two-Weapon Fighting, he reduces the penalties by 1 when attacking with his shield.

Does not negate the Dex 15 requirement for TWF. I can't help but feel that is a bad thing.

Tower Bash (Ex): Even the bulk of a tower shield will not prevent a shieldmaster from using it as a weapon. At 1st level a shieldmaster can shield bash with a tower shield, which for medium characters deals 1d8 damage, 20/x2 crit, counts as a one-handed weapon with a Str requirement of 13, and is martial. You cannot use this feature if you are not proficient in tower shields.

Well, it's not bad...

Powerful Arm (Ex): Using such heavy tools in both arms makes one powerful, as they learn how to balance themselves and push thrust and momentum in their swings. At 2nd level any one-handed weapon wielded while using a shield is treated as a two-handed weapon for strength applies and power attack. Likewise a light weapon becomes one-handed for the same purposes.

Good, but poor grammar. Should mention what happens when you now wield a two handed weapon with your stronger arms.

Shield Stance (Ex): At 2nd level a shieldmaster is able to use his shield more effectively, gaining a +1 bonus to his shield AC when using any shield. At 4th level this becomes +2.

Minor.

Tower Charge (Ex): Tower shields, in all their size, make it easier to shove around the enemy. A shieldmaster may perform a bull rush with a tower shield, gaining a +6 circumstance bonus to the bull rush thanks to the shield. You cannot use this feature if you are not proficient in tower shields.

Sure, why not.

Impact Shield (Ex): At 3rd level you gain two applications of the shield bash which are useful in combat. As an attack action you may make an attack with the shield, and deal no damage. Instead the opponent must make a Fortitude save, DC 10 + 1/2 character level + Str, or take a -4 penalty to attack, AC, and skills for 1 round as they are dazed from impact, save negates. Alternatively you may make a standard action and the save saving throw vs becoming flatfooted as well as the penalties above. A save negates the flatfooted, but not the penalty. Tower shields get +1 to the save DC.

Save DC is too low and targets the strongest monster fortitude save.

Shield of the Heart (Su): At 4th level a shieldmaster has bonded to his shield on a more spiritual level, and it protects him from even supernatural harm. He gains his shield bonus to touch AC against spells and spell-like abilities. In addition, so long as he has his shield bonus he gains a +2 insight bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.

Good.

Evasion (Ex): At 5th level a shieldmaster has mastered the art of dodging, weaving, and getting himself between danger and his defenses. He gains evasion. If he already possess evasion, he instead gains improved evasion.

Evasion's not a bad thing.

Immediate Cover (Ex): At 5th level the quick reflexes of a shieldmaster come into play when using a tower shield. As an immediate action he may take total cover behind his tower shield, which can prevent many a burst effect spells and obliterate an incoming blow. This uses up his actions in the upcoming round, hiding behind his tower shield, but ensures he survives. You cannot use this feature if you are not proficient in tower shields.

Wings of Cover is better.

Improved Shield Fighting (Ex): At 5th level you gain Improved Two-Weapon Fighting for using a weapon and your shield. If you already have the actual Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, your penalties decrease by 1 again to a penalty of 0.

Again, to make any use of this would require you to have a Dex of 17.

Overall: Aside from some editing mistakes, this has potential as a fighter prestige class. However, a Crusader is probably better off with 5 more initiator levels.

 

[Luka]

Which ones, specifically?

There's several in Devoted Spirit stance, like Iron Guard's Glare, Shield Block, Defencive Rebuke, Thicket of blades and Shield Counter. and Extra Grant Maneuver feat.

Not something you want to be doing in combat.

Planned of actually using the spells from a distance.

Full round action at +1 spell level. As a multiclassed spellcaster, you are already behind on which spell levels you have access to. This is not a good plan.

It would be better if you took a feat like Somatic Weaponry, because that allows you to cast while wielding a weapon, but even then you're working uphill.

That one seems better, thanks

 

[Dandu]

There's several in Devoted Spirit stance, like Iron Guard's Glare, Shield Block, Defencive Rebuke, Thicket of blades and Shield Counter. and Extra Grant Maneuver feat.

Iron Guard's Glare: Only works on enemies you threaten.
Shield Block: Helps adjacent ally. (Does not force someone to attack you.)
Defensive Rebuke: Only works on enemies you threaten
Thicket of Blades: Only works on the area you threaten.

See, while someone with a Longspear, Guisarme, or Spiked Chain threatens 10 feet, someone wielding a single handed weapon does not. This means you only affect people within 5 feet of you.

And this is a problem.

Now, you could take EWP for the Kusari-gama in the DMG that's like a spiked chain, but one handed and which deals less damage, but now you've spent two feats (on EWP and Somatic Weaponry) so far. You're spellcasting will be horribly inadequate, you'll be behind on maneuvers...

Planned of actually using the spells from a distance.

Which spells? Your sorcerer levels are likely to be few, so you're not getting any of the big guns. Magic Missle and Acid Arrow are not worthwhile. Grease and Glitterdust are better, but the DCs, uses per day, and duration are likely to be crap at the level you get them.

 

[Luka]

Iron Guard's Glare: Only works on enemies you threaten.
Shield Block: Helps adjacent ally. (Does not force someone to attack you.)
Defensive Rebuke: Only works on enemies you threaten
Thicket of Blades: Only works on the area you threaten.

See, while someone with a Longspear, Guisarme, or Spiked Chain threatens 10 feet, someone wielding a single handed weapon does not. This means you only affect people within 5 feet of you.

Um...I said I was getting a meteor hammer too for reach after you mentioned the reach problem earlier.

Now, you could take EWP for the Kusari-gama in the DMG that's like a spiked chain, but one handed and which deals less damage, but now you've spent two feats (on EWP and Somatic Weaponry) so far. You're spellcasting will be horribly inadequate, you'll be behind on maneuvers...

as far I know, Spiked chain is exotic too, so would have to take it anyways.

Which spells? Your sorcerer levels are likely to be few, so you're not getting any of the big guns. Magic Missle and Acid Arrow are not worthwhile. Grease and Glitterdust are better, but the DCs, uses per day, and duration are likely to be crap at the level you get them.

Still thinking about that yet, for long campaigns would get force missile mage, for short ones I would be rather using a repeating crossbow than a mage anyways.

 

[Dandu]

A Crusader/Sorcerer/Shield Master/Force Missile Mage is not something I would advise you to try.

 

[Luka]

A Crusader/Sorcerer/Shield Master/Force Missile Mage is not something I would advise you to try.

Why doesn't it work?

Does not negate the Dex 15 requirement for TWF. I can't help but feel that is a bad thing.

It says it applies only when wielding shields, it's not necesarily TWF, don't see what's wrong with it.

 

[Dandu]

Why doesn't it work?

You will suck at combat and spellcasting.

It says it applies only when wielding shields, it's not necesarily TWF, don't see what's wrong with it.

You gain TWF when wielding shields.

TWF requires Dex 15.

If you do not have Dex 15 when wielding shields, you cannot use TWF. If you do, then how are you affording a high Str score with which to deal damage on top of Con to not die, and Cha for spellcasting and saves?

 

[cjosephs1s]

The more I read the more confused I get at what this toon is. So you want to be a 1h weapon + shield up front in your face melee that uses dex based fighting that casts spells from a distance and uses a crossbow???

So lets see that means you need a good dex, con, str and cha score.

How many levels of Sorc are you planning on taking?


Where do you put your weapon and shield when your using your crossbow?

Normally you would get 7 feats (8 if human) and so far you have used EWP, Improved shield Bash, Somantic Weaponry, Grant Extra Manuever (it feels like I'm missing one or two in here) which leaves you at most 4 feats left. So far your feats haven't done anything to help you out in any way other than Improved shield bash.

When you take those levels of sorcerer you really need to not wear any armor or use shields due to Arcane spell failure (unless there's something out there that helps negate this) 50% chance with tower shields. Which means you're going to be really easy to hit and probably really hard to cast spells and those levels are only going to give a d4 HP. Lowering your overall effectiveness as an upfront melee fighter/protector.

You said earlier you are a specialist but this toon is all over the place.

My advice is to forget the sorcerer part entirely. I'd say for a build like this its feat intensive. You need good armor (which means heavy armor), A tower shield, lots of HP, reach, decent damage, and lots of feats. I'd go with a fighter build..maybe even warblade. There maybe other classes out there but right now those two are coming to mind that meet the criteria above.

Also I remember a feat called Goad (Complete Adventurer). Basically its forces a monster to make melee attacks against you if it fails the save.

 

[Dandu]

Cha based. You'll have to go with a Crusader build to make the best use of that. Also, does not work on mindless enemies.

I think Crusader works better than Fighter or Warblade for a tank, as you can soak damage much better.

 

[Luka]

You gain TWF when wielding shields.

TWF requires Dex 15.

If you do not have Dex 15 when wielding shields, you cannot use TWF. If you do, then how are you affording a high Str score with which to deal damage on top of Con to not die, and Cha for spellcasting and saves?

Wait, it actually has to say that it works without the Dex 15 to work without it?, I mean it says it just gives that it's easier to assume you don't need it, dunno.