D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 ShielMaster/Crusader worth for tanking?

[Luka]

If you want something for taunting people, Knight's Challenge does it better. Only 1 level is needed for it. A couple levels of fighter would free up some feats. I wouldn't do much more than that, because, as has been stated, high level maneuvers are well worth it.

Wait isn't it a Knight ability? as far I know, Knights are only lawful.

Waaaaaaaait a minute..... just read the ToB and it says that crusaders can't be neutral aligned, does that mean I can't have a NG one?..... Crap, here comes losing skills in a stupid way again, and prefer Rping an NG one than a LG one anyways...

Kusari-gama. One handed exotic weapon with reach. DMG.

I think I prefer the meteor hammer, I mean, doesn't it higher damage be more a threat and cause enemies to come?, would just have to use a move action to change for the sword when needed.

It simply.. can't stand in the gap between your allies and enemies and take all the brunt of the beating by drawing enemies to itself.

It can take it, there's crusader strike, and a maneuver that gives heal.

These are all great maneuvers... which is why you are being strongly encouraged to not multiclass into Sorcerer or take a prestige class that does not advance initiator levels so you can get more great maneuvers. If you go with the original plan, the maneuvers have the function of making a poor character better. Sticking with Crusader will make you excel. There is a difference.

Wouldn't just have Crusader or Initiator as favored Class?

You probably will want one of the higher level maneuvers at that point, because you need to be a threat to, say, an Ice Devil who can teleport at will (and fly, and cast Cone of Cold, and Ice Storm, and Wall of Ice, and Persistent Image, and Unholy Aura) so he attacks you over another party member. The 4th level Stone Dragon maneuver Bonesplitting Strike, for instance, would be more useful here than holding a big shield and using it to protect an ally from a melee attack. Which might not happen due to the aforementioned Cone of Cold...

Couldn't Total Cover Stop the Cone? like having the rest of the party behind or something?

 

[Dandu]

Wouldn't just have Crusader or Initiator as favored Class?

That is not how it works.

Couldn't Total Cover Stop the Cone? like having the rest of the party behind or something?

No. Tower shields only benefit the wielder.

And even if it did work, the Ice Devil could just fly above the party and fire downwards.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Couldn't Total Cover Stop the Cone? like having the rest of the party behind or something?

The thing you need to realize that makes D&D different from a MMORPG is that in a video game, the enemies operate based upon a set of programmed responses. You learn the system, and move to intercept.

in D&D, the DM simply says "You positioned your character here. I choose to walk around you/fly over you/teleport past you..." and there is very little you can do about it. You are playing against a person, not a program.

The idea of positioning yourself on the board/table/world for optimal defense... simply doesn't work.

......Unless your DM plays it like it does. If your DM is willing to cater to the style of play you want, then sure, you can stand where you like and the monster will be too dumb to move around you.

It's only, no one here has ever seen a DM play that way.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Waaaaaaaait a minute..... just read the ToB and it says that crusaders can't be neutral aligned, does that mean I can't have a NG one?..... Crap, here comes losing skills in a stupid way again, and prefer Rping an NG one than a LG one anyways...

Chaotic Good? Champion of Individual Freedoms? User of Guerrilla Warfare Tactics? Stand for Justice, even in the face of the Law?

 

[Luka]

Chaotic Good? Champion of Individual Freedoms? User of Guerrilla Warfare Tactics? Stand for Justice, even in the face of the Law?

Same thing but when doing something lawful and not even noticing. I like Neutral Good best, just seen the ToB and it looks like it meant True Neutral not every neutral.

 

[Luka]

The thing you need to realize that makes D&D different from a MMORPG is that in a video game, the enemies operate based upon a set of programmed responses. You learn the system, and move to intercept.

in D&D, the DM simply says "You positioned your character here. I choose to walk around you/fly over you/teleport past you..." and there is very little you can do about it. You are playing against a person, not a program.

The idea of positioning yourself on the board/table/world for optimal defense... simply doesn't work.

......Unless your DM plays it like it does. If your DM is willing to cater to the style of play you want, then sure, you can stand where you like and the monster will be too dumb to move around you.

It's only, no one here has ever seen a DM play that way.

You notice all you said is just like MMORPG PvP Tanking right? if the DM does something likethat just move, it's just like PvP'ing by the way you say it.

 

[Dandu]

What do you want?

 

[cjosephs1s]

Ok. All I've got left in this build is to pick out manuevers (already on 3rd level so should be done fairly soon), skills and gear and then do the math and post. So back to my earlier question: What format should I post this in? Right now most of it is in Excel (can I post a spreadsheet?) And I can xfer the final product over to a character sheet too (Word Doc).

I'm not sure what Luka wants but this has been a great learning experience for me about Crusaders and how strong they really are. I'd still recommend for a 20 level build that you throw in at least 2 levels of Fighter and probably 4 to to gain the extra feats of Weapon focus, Greater weapon focus and weapon specialization

 

[Dandu]

1. I personally would multiclass 4 levels with Knight, if anything.
2. Go on The Tangled Web Profiler, get an account, and start a character sheet there. Or Myth Weavers, I suppose.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Crusaders cannot be true neutral. All other alignments, including neutral good, work just fine for them.

Favored class is something that only counts for multiclass penalties. It does not give you the abilities of your favored class as you level up. The PHB goes over this in pretty good detail in the section Multiclassing.