D&D 5E Imagine This: 5E in five easy steps

[Zireael]

Originally Posted by mkill
* Fort, Ref, Will like AC, not die rolls; spells have attack rolls
There are player rolls variant or house rules for both editions, this is easy.

Could you point me to some of those variants, please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkill
* Completely different healing rules (healing surge etc)

This is an issue where it will be interesting seeing them reconcile different opinions. It's not impossible to design the core system so that different healing rules can be used, but they need some default of course.

I am also interested in how this issue will be solved.

 

[Hassassin]

Could you point me to some of those variants, please?

For 3e they were in UA. I don't have a reference for 4e, but you can at least find house rules using Google. (Someone else can probably help.)

 

[Aeolius]

...the above would basically please both 3.x and 4E fans, and thus 90% of the D&D fan base.

Call it quibbling, but 3e fans will feel slighted, if 4e fans find the edition to their liking, and vice versa. 5e needs to be something new, universally baffling to players of all prior editions, but with hints of what makes D&D feel like D&D.

Then, release a quick-start guide in a "read me first" format, so that anyone, regardless of past experience, can play some form of the game in 20 minutes. Familiarity with the rules will then follow.

 

[Mallus]

What about players who didn't like 3.5 or 4E?

I would think it's the players who really liked 3e who would be most disappointed by this approach. My observation is the majority of 3e fans like it because of the complexity, not in spite of it. They enjoy the 3e complexity, all the options and synergies, the character-building mini-game, etc.

Note that Pathfinder is not a simpler version of 3e, and Microlite is a fan hack that's popular with a small number of message board folk.

 

[Mercurius]

Call it quibbling, but 3e fans will feel slighted, if 4e fans find the edition to their liking, and vice versa. 5e needs to be something new, universally baffling to players of all prior editions, but with hints of what makes D&D feel like D&D.

Then, release a quick-start guide in a "read me first" format, so that anyone, regardless of past experience, can play some form of the game in 20 minutes. Familiarity with the rules will then follow.

That just sounds petty. D&D fans are never petty.

But on a serious note, I agree with you that 5E needs to be something new. But I think it can be new while a) retaining something very similar to the core of 3.x and 4E, and b) be able to re-configure either 3.x or 4E with the the modular options.

What is "new" might be a few tweaks here and there, but it will mainly be in the modular approach - which opens up the possibilities of the game in a way previously not possible, or at least not actualized. Now we really can have class-less D&D or D&D with spontaneous casting or variant alignment systems, etc.

I would think it's the players who really liked 3e who would be most disappointed by this approach. My observation is the majority of 3e fans like it because of the complexity, not in spite of it. They enjoy the 3e complexity, all the options and synergies, the character-building mini-game, etc.

Note that Pathfinder is not a simpler version of 3e, and Microlite is a fan hack that's popular with a small number of message board folk.

But equal or even greater complexity would be possible with modular options, it just wouldn't be core. 3E fans will only be unhappy if they want everyone else to be playing their version of the game.

 

[Aeolius]

That just sounds petty. D&D fans are never petty.

Try being a fan of the World of Greyhawk setting, sometime. Some 1e GH fans dislike everything that followed, some 3e fans dislike changes made in 2e, some accept novels as canon while others do not. And don't even get started on gunpowder.

But on a serious note, I agree with you that 5E needs to be something new... in the modular approach

As a DM who prefers a combat-light and roleplay-heavy approach, I am keen to see how the "complexity dials" are implemented, myself.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

we haven't seen yet. But the point is, the above would basically please both 3.x and 4E fans, and thus 90% of the D&D fan base. Not everyone would convert, but most everyone would at least like and appreciate the game.

I think you vastly underestimate the number of people playing older editions.

 

[juboke]

But the point is, the above would basically please both 3.x and 4E fans, and thus 90% of the D&D fan base

This is an interesting stat. Not saying that it is incorrect, but can you source it?

 

[WheresMyD20]

Honestly? Those folks aren't a priority, I would imagine, or at least not compared to other groups. The top three priorities, in whatever order, are: current 4E players, 3.x/Pathfinder players, and potential new players. Players of older editions converting to 5E would just be icing on the cake, really, but they represent a pretty small portion of the pie.

Now if WotC can design a game that pleases 3.x and 4E players, and is accessible and appealing to newbies, then--and only then--should older edition players be considered. In other words, only if it is doesn't impede the first three priorities. Hopefully they'll be able to throw in bits of TSR flair, however, without going against those three more important priorities. But what we won't see is a 5E that peddles backwards to pre-WotC design approaches.

Catering to the same dwindling player base that exists now is a recipe for failure. New players are the key.

The old BECMI sets still remain the best introductory D&D product ever released. There's a lot that can be learned from that edition. BECMI is far more newbie friendly than 3e or 4e. Its design, level of complexity, and the way it was marketed are a blueprint for how to get new players into the hobby.

How do you make a modern version of BECMI? Start with 3e, remove the feats, skills, and minis combat. Streamline the rules by using DM fiat for corner-cases. The rules you're left with would be pretty similar to classic D&D. Package it with a few newbie-friendly chapters of introduction to the game, and you've got a winning 5e core.

 

[nnms]

Note that Pathfinder is not a simpler version of 3e, and Microlite is a fan hack that's popular with a small number of message board folk.

My point in bringing it up was to show what you can do with a 3.x style approach once you strip out all the elements that are part of class, spell or other subsystem design.

I'm not advocating D&D Next should be Microlite20, but that 3.x OGL does provide a very simple core framework that can be easily adapted to produce a wide variety of D&D edition style play.